ST Alpha - "Do people wrongly imprisioned in the US typically turn to a life of crime upon their release? -- nm" (Reading a Post)

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Do people wrongly imprisioned in the US typically turn to a life of crime upon their release? -- nm

Posted by oblique (aka kkuphal) Jan 23 '09, 07:25

(No message)

Responses:

"I had to come to prison to be a crook." -- nm - Max Jan 23, 07:46
possibly depends on how long they were in. getting released with no job skills after a certain age would be tough to make a living -- nm - zork Jan 23, 07:34
typically? probably not. how many people have been released from guantanamo though? and how many of those have gone on to terrorism? - mafic Jan 23, 07:29 10
- the news article suggests more than a couple. -- nm - loosilu Jan 23, 07:30 9
  - yeah, it said dozens, but offered nothing to back that up. - mafic Jan 23, 07:35 8
    - I know. We really don't know how many. however, it is reasonable to expect that it is many. -- nm - loosilu Jan 23, 07:36 7
      - ah, says 61 here. if that's true, out of 420 released I think it just underscores how flawed the system was/is. -- (link) - mafic Jan 23, 07:40 6
        
        I'm sure there are more we don't know of. -- nm - loosilu Jan 23, 07:41 5
        
        but there's no real point discussing them, is there? -- nm - mafic Jan 23, 07:43 4
        
        well, it's legitimate to be concerned about what's going to happen when the camp closes down. -- nm - loosilu Jan 23, 07:44 3
        
        if they're criminals, try them, if they're not, release them - mafic Jan 23, 07:52 1
        
        we've fubared the process. it worries me. -- nm - loosilu Jan 23, 07:53
        
        [deleted]
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It is not at all unusual. - pmb Jan 23, 07:28
i think generally they get new jobs as straw men...nm - x Jan 23, 07:28
in a perhaps more relevant parallel: an urban teenager convicted of a petty crime, gets sent to jail and hooks up with gang members while in prison - znufrii Jan 23, 07:28 54
- Maybe you've seen Shawshank Redemption too many times. -- nm - loosilu Jan 23, 07:31 7
  - Have you seen it? -- nm - Don Homer Jan 23, 07:33 5
    - yes. -- nm - loosilu Jan 23, 07:34 4
      - Okay, because that doesn't actually happen in the movie. -- nm - Don Homer Jan 23, 07:35 3
        
        Did you see the movie where an innocent guy goes to jail, then becomes a criminal, or was it a different one? -- nm - loosilu Jan 23, 07:37 2
        
        straddling spoiler country there -- nm - zork Jan 23, 07:38 1
        
        sorry. -- nm - loosilu Jan 23, 07:39
  - never seen it, in fact. -- nm - znufrii Jan 23, 07:32
- But are you saying that these people are not guilty of a crime? -- nm - oblique Jan 23, 07:29 45
  - no, but often times people go to jail for something very small, get out and know no other life but what they've learned in prison. -- nm - Andie Jan 23, 07:32 1
    - [deleted]
  - I've said nothing of the sort. -- nm - znufrii Jan 23, 07:30 42
    - So, the people in gitmo are guilty? So we should let them go? - oblique Jan 23, 07:31 41
      - how are these questions relevant to the point I was making? -- nm - znufrii Jan 23, 07:33 40
        
        Isn't your general point that these people did nothing, were picked up and imprisoned for years without cause? - oblique Jan 23, 07:37 39
        
        well, a lot of them go on to fight the system (prisoners' rights groups, project innocence, all that stuff), but if you get deported to Yemen, that's - mafic Jan 23, 07:48
        
        You also are asking this from the viewpoint that the Gitmo detainees are treated like US criminals. - Will Hunting Jan 23, 07:44 1
        
        yep, that's why they're in Gitmo in the first place, so they don't have to be. -- nm - loosilu Jan 23, 07:45
        
        [deleted] 27
        
        I'm not getting that from kilbo's posts at all -- nm - Roger More Jan 23, 07:41 23
        
        [deleted] 21
        
        can you link to one of his posts, instead of paraphrasing? - Roger More Jan 23, 07:50 2
        
        [deleted] 1
        
        It looks to me that you're criticising his tools of argument, and not addressing (what I see as) his point. -- nm - Roger More Jan 23, 08:02
        
        Good people rarely turn to crime and terror no matter what their circumstances? -- nm - Name Withheld By Request Jan 23, 07:46 17
        
        [deleted]
        
        i think years of being treated with waterboarding and torture for information might just turn anyone from 'good.' -- nm - Andie Jan 23, 07:48 15
        
        Yet, there are countless examples of people who have gone through as trying or even more trying circumstances and haven't. - Name Withheld By Request Jan 23, 07:57 2
        
        there are always examples of being being strong, and of people being weak. i never said 'every person will become a terrorist' - but i can understand - Andie Jan 23, 07:59 1
        
        I'm not suggesting that you are being universal in your statement. - Name Withheld By Request Jan 23, 08:05
        
        I guess I have my doubts that this is what is truly happening there on a regular basis to the average detainee -- nm - oblique Jan 23, 07:52 11
        
        ah, see, i don't. -- nm - Andie Jan 23, 07:53 10
        
        [deleted] 3
        
        there's a huge difference between a handful of prisoners vs. daily torture as a rule to the population -- nm - oblique Jan 23, 08:01
        
        right (i was saying i don't have any problem believing that torture is pretty much the norm) -- nm - Andie Jan 23, 08:01 1
        
        [deleted]
        
        (It's why they are there - so that the normal standards don't need to be followed.) -- nm - Andie Jan 23, 07:54 5
        
        though they have said they've only waterboarded like 5 guys (or maybe 3?). the rest of them just get the 'augmented interrogation techniques' -- nm - mafic Jan 23, 07:59
        
        Military vs. civilian trial standards perhaps - oblique Jan 23, 07:58 3
        
        This is my understanding. That the evidence to hold them wouldn't hold up in a US court, but they wanted to hold the prisoners nonetheless. -- nm - Name Withheld By Request Jan 23, 07:59 2
        
        yep, military courts have different - loosilu Jan 23, 08:01
        
        so, that's okay? by our owns laws we can't keep you, so.... we'll keep you anyway, just not "here". -- nm - Andie Jan 23, 08:00
        
        I'm getting that everyone is trying to push each other into the "extreme view" corner. -- nm - loosilu Jan 23, 07:43
        
        *marvels at the logical leaps being made on all sides* -- nm - loosilu Jan 23, 07:40 2
        
        *pulls out the Jump to Conclusions mat* -- nm - Strongbad Jan 23, 07:41 1
        
        *bloop* -- nm - WiiJump to Conclusions Mat Jan 23, 07:48
        
        actually, no, that wasn't my point at all. -- nm - znufrii Jan 23, 07:38 7
        
        So what is the point of saying that "those that weren't AQ now have the connections"? - oblique Jan 23, 07:39 6
        
        first of all - there are other terrorist organizations other than AQ. Some people in Gitmo are completely guiltly, some were in the wrong place, - Andie Jan 23, 07:42 5
        
        Regardless of the organization, you still have two groups: terrorists, non-terrorists. I'm speaking of the non-terrorists -- nm - oblique Jan 23, 07:44 4
        
        it's fun to see everything in black and white, isn't it. -- nm - znufrii Jan 23, 07:51
        
        right. did you read my IM? -- nm - Andie Jan 23, 07:46 2
        
        sure, and it goes back to my point. How often do people truly innocent (non-terrorists/non-criminals) put side by side with criminals (imprisoned) - oblique Jan 23, 07:48 1
        
        i said it above, but, do you honestly think that being treated as a subhuman by US respresentatives for years might not change your very basic nature? - Andie Jan 23, 07:50
wrongly imprisoned typically: sue -- nm - Epiphany Jan 23, 07:27 2
- I think we linked to that story yesterday -- nm - oblique Jan 23, 07:31 1
  - yep likely to be the 1st of many - unless they shut this one down -- nm - Epiphany Jan 23, 07:39
you mean at gitmo, or just in general? - tRuMaN Jan 23, 07:27 11
- I was speaking generally to the mindset. If you're innocent of what you've been accused of - oblique Jan 23, 07:28 10
  - (and typically if you're in prison, you've been convicted, which none of the guantanamo detainees have been) -- nm - mafic Jan 23, 07:32 8
    - 3 were found guilty -- nm - Redmond Jan 23, 07:34 6
      - out of 800+ prisoners that have been there, that's a pretty terrible average. -- nm - mafic Jan 23, 07:42 2
        
        it could be that the prisoners who were released, were less likely to be found guilty. - loosilu Jan 23, 07:59 1
        
        they've still only charged like 20 people. if they have the evidence, 7 years shoud be enough time to get *something* accomplished. -- nm - mafic Jan 23, 08:05
      - and others have been found guilty in other countries. -- nm - loosilu Jan 23, 07:35
      - [deleted] 1
        
        many people are imprisoned before they are found guilty. -- nm - loosilu Jan 23, 07:35
    - yes, there have been convictions. -- nm - loosilu Jan 23, 07:33
  - many people go on to fight the system that incarcerated them. -- nm - mafic Jan 23, 07:30

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