ST Alpha - "I hate the fat tub of goo (hi hyde), but any HOF ballot that doesn't include Clemens is nonsensical. (nm)" (Reading a Post)

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I hate the fat tub of goo (hi hyde), but any HOF ballot that doesn't include Clemens is nonsensical. (nm)

Posted by musubi Nov 28 '12, 11:19

Piazza and Bonds as well.

Responses:

right. -- nm - Don Homer Nov 28, 11:22
Mark McGwire is being punished and he admitted to taking creatine during his playing days. - David Nov 28, 11:21
The problem is, the writers have already set a precedent. I'm curious to see how they justify Clemens and Bonds while continuing to - Jim Nov 28, 11:21 17
- Both McGwire and Palmeiro were much more borderline cases than Bonds or Clemens, but overall I agree with you. - musubi Nov 28, 11:23 15
  - McGwire is #10 all time in OPS. He's ahead of Mickey Mantle. That's not what I call borderline. -- nm - David Nov 28, 11:29 8
    - That stat is....impacted by roiding balls to Kansas and having pitchers fear you for being able to roid a ball to Kansas - Will Hunting Nov 28, 11:31 7
      - That's the conversation. Why would Clemens get a pass for the cheating if McGwire, one of the 10 best power hitters ever, does not? -- nm - David Nov 28, 11:32 6
        
        He wouldn't for me...I'd put both out. I'd be more inclined for Bonds and Raffy to be in becuase their skillsets - Will Hunting Nov 28, 11:37 5
        
        Just adding info to the conversation, McGwire told SI that he started using Creatine in 97. - David Nov 28, 11:40 3
        
        So, 87 to 96...he was all about the power, but his other contributions waned... - Will Hunting Nov 28, 11:56 2
        
        His stats in 95 and 96 were 1.125 and 1.198. If he's not using until some point in mid-97, those are hard to explain. -- nm - David Nov 28, 11:58 1
        
        Honestly, the McGwire in 1995 was about miles bigger than 1992. - Will Hunting Nov 28, 12:00
        
        This -- nm - amoxy Nov 28, 11:39
  - Palmeiro has the 3000 hits which, even if the power was fraudulent, still doesn't come easy. -- nm - Will Hunting Nov 28, 11:25
  - I would vote in Palmerio before I voted in McGwire -- nm - amoxy Nov 28, 11:25 4
    - Palmeiro's OPS was .888. McGwire's was .982. -- nm - David Nov 28, 11:30 3
      - This another example of why OPS isn't even close to being a full measure of a player. - Inigo Nov 28, 11:44 2
        
        That's the beauty of stats. They take out the opinions and show the reality. - David Nov 28, 11:48 1
        
        Palmeiro leads McGwire in WAR, hits (almost double McGwire's), batting average, RBI, Runs, etc... - Inigo Nov 28, 12:02
- Well, McGwire and Palmeiro are borderline to begin with. -- nm - Don Homer Nov 28, 11:22

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I hate the fat tub of goo (hi hyde), but any HOF ballot that doesn't include Clemens is nonsensical. (nm)

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