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In response to "I hate the fat tub of goo (hi hyde), but any HOF ballot that doesn't include Clemens is nonsensical. (nm)" by musubi

The problem is, the writers have already set a precedent. I'm curious to see how they justify Clemens and Bonds while continuing to

Posted by Jim (aka Jim) Nov 28 '12, 11:21

vilify McGwire and Palmeiro.

Responses:

Both McGwire and Palmeiro were much more borderline cases than Bonds or Clemens, but overall I agree with you. - musubi Nov 28, 11:23 15
- McGwire is #10 all time in OPS. He's ahead of Mickey Mantle. That's not what I call borderline. -- nm - David Nov 28, 11:29 8
  - That stat is....impacted by roiding balls to Kansas and having pitchers fear you for being able to roid a ball to Kansas - Will Hunting Nov 28, 11:31 7
    - That's the conversation. Why would Clemens get a pass for the cheating if McGwire, one of the 10 best power hitters ever, does not? -- nm - David Nov 28, 11:32 6
      - He wouldn't for me...I'd put both out. I'd be more inclined for Bonds and Raffy to be in becuase their skillsets - Will Hunting Nov 28, 11:37 5
        
        Just adding info to the conversation, McGwire told SI that he started using Creatine in 97. - David Nov 28, 11:40 3
        
        So, 87 to 96...he was all about the power, but his other contributions waned... - Will Hunting Nov 28, 11:56 2
        
        His stats in 95 and 96 were 1.125 and 1.198. If he's not using until some point in mid-97, those are hard to explain. -- nm - David Nov 28, 11:58 1
        
        Honestly, the McGwire in 1995 was about miles bigger than 1992. - Will Hunting Nov 28, 12:00
        
        This -- nm - amoxy Nov 28, 11:39
- Palmeiro has the 3000 hits which, even if the power was fraudulent, still doesn't come easy. -- nm - Will Hunting Nov 28, 11:25
- I would vote in Palmerio before I voted in McGwire -- nm - amoxy Nov 28, 11:25 4
  - Palmeiro's OPS was .888. McGwire's was .982. -- nm - David Nov 28, 11:30 3
    - This another example of why OPS isn't even close to being a full measure of a player. - Inigo Nov 28, 11:44 2
      - That's the beauty of stats. They take out the opinions and show the reality. - David Nov 28, 11:48 1
        
        Palmeiro leads McGwire in WAR, hits (almost double McGwire's), batting average, RBI, Runs, etc... - Inigo Nov 28, 12:02
Well, McGwire and Palmeiro are borderline to begin with. -- nm - Don Homer Nov 28, 11:22

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The problem is, the writers have already set a precedent. I'm curious to see how they justify Clemens and Bonds while continuing to

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