ST Alpha - "Both McGwire and Palmeiro were much more borderline cases than Bonds or Clemens, but overall I agree with you." (Reading a Post)

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In response to "The problem is, the writers have already set a precedent. I'm curious to see how they justify Clemens and Bonds while continuing to" by Jim

Both McGwire and Palmeiro were much more borderline cases than Bonds or Clemens, but overall I agree with you.

Posted by musubi Nov 28 '12, 11:23

Absolutist stances don't really work when you try to moderate them for exceptions the way some writers will.

Responses:

McGwire is #10 all time in OPS. He's ahead of Mickey Mantle. That's not what I call borderline. -- nm - David Nov 28, 11:29 8
- That stat is....impacted by roiding balls to Kansas and having pitchers fear you for being able to roid a ball to Kansas - Will Hunting Nov 28, 11:31 7
  - That's the conversation. Why would Clemens get a pass for the cheating if McGwire, one of the 10 best power hitters ever, does not? -- nm - David Nov 28, 11:32 6
    - He wouldn't for me...I'd put both out. I'd be more inclined for Bonds and Raffy to be in becuase their skillsets - Will Hunting Nov 28, 11:37 5
      - Just adding info to the conversation, McGwire told SI that he started using Creatine in 97. - David Nov 28, 11:40 3
        
        So, 87 to 96...he was all about the power, but his other contributions waned... - Will Hunting Nov 28, 11:56 2
        
        His stats in 95 and 96 were 1.125 and 1.198. If he's not using until some point in mid-97, those are hard to explain. -- nm - David Nov 28, 11:58 1
        
        Honestly, the McGwire in 1995 was about miles bigger than 1992. - Will Hunting Nov 28, 12:00
      - This -- nm - amoxy Nov 28, 11:39
Palmeiro has the 3000 hits which, even if the power was fraudulent, still doesn't come easy. -- nm - Will Hunting Nov 28, 11:25
I would vote in Palmerio before I voted in McGwire -- nm - amoxy Nov 28, 11:25 4
- Palmeiro's OPS was .888. McGwire's was .982. -- nm - David Nov 28, 11:30 3
  - This another example of why OPS isn't even close to being a full measure of a player. - Inigo Nov 28, 11:44 2
    - That's the beauty of stats. They take out the opinions and show the reality. - David Nov 28, 11:48 1
      - Palmeiro leads McGwire in WAR, hits (almost double McGwire's), batting average, RBI, Runs, etc... - Inigo Nov 28, 12:02

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Both McGwire and Palmeiro were much more borderline cases than Bonds or Clemens, but overall I agree with you.

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