ST Alpha - "The point is, it's *not* a solution. Changing the names of the dead doesn't keep them from being dead. (nm)" (Reading a Post)

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In response to "moose, I am not saying to settle for the fast solution." by groiny

The point is, it's not a solution. Changing the names of the dead doesn't keep them from being dead. (nm)

Posted by musubi Dec 21 '12, 09:41

You even say, that *at best*, all this does is change the target.

Responses:

can you give me a solution other than "take away guns"? - groiny Dec 21, 09:42 52
- You know that no one is proposing that *take away guns* is the solution, nor is it the only solution. - Kim Pine Dec 21, 09:47 34
  - Hee. /looks one line down -- nm - Dr.Vermin Dec 21, 09:49 33
    - Well, okay. Most of us aren't. :) -- nm - Kim Pine Dec 21, 09:49 32
      - It's short-hand. I know that taking away *every* gun isn't feasible in the world. - musubi Dec 21, 09:51 31
        
        I agree with you. Full removal is impractical; drastic reduction is not. -- nm - David Dec 21, 09:55 25
        
        Yup. I honestly wish we could remove *every* gun. But i know that's not realistic. - musubi Dec 21, 10:01 24
        
        so, all the law abiding citizens who have never used their guns in a crime will turn theirs in. - groiny Dec 21, 10:05 23
        
        crazy kids with law abiding parents wouldn't have gun readily at hand to go shoot up an elementary school, for one. -- nm - znufrii Dec 21, 10:08
        
        You'll see a drop in domestic homicides. -- nm - Will Hunting Dec 21, 10:07 16
        
        (And suicides.) nm - Dignan Dec 21, 10:15 3
        
        I don't much care about those, because there are many ways to skin a cat. nm -- nm - groiny Dec 21, 10:16 2
        
        If you choose to not care, I can't make you. (nm) - musubi Dec 21, 10:20
        
        Suicides dropped 65% in Australia after their anti-gun plan was enacted. - Dignan Dec 21, 10:19
        
        again, optimism. nm -- nm - groiny Dec 21, 10:11 11
        
        It worked in Australia. nm - Dignan Dec 21, 10:13
        
        This is such a BS response. You don't think it's easier to *kill* with a gun than some other tool? - musubi Dec 21, 10:13 8
        
        thinking that crime rates will decrease because you take law abiding citizens protection away is optimism. - groiny Dec 21, 10:15 4
        
        It's *proven* to work in other countries. - musubi Dec 21, 10:18 3
        
        And lifejackets don't make water any more breathable, they just keep it out of *your* lungs. - Dr.Vermin Dec 21, 10:21 2
        
        i don't even know what this means. -- nm - Andie Dec 21, 10:21 1
        
        It's an honest-to-god sincere attempt to analogize guns with life jackets. nm - Dignan Dec 21, 10:24
        
        I still go back to the 2 school disasters. One in Sandy Hook, One in China - amoxy Dec 21, 10:15 2
        
        We'll get to the knives next. - Dr.Vermin Dec 21, 10:18 1
        
        Oh I get it that is sarcasm -- nm - amoxy Dec 21, 10:23
        
        Nope.....there are a substantial number of domestic homicides that aren't prefaced by legal action - Will Hunting Dec 21, 10:13
        
        Then there are less guns for killing people. For the billionth time, it doesn't stop *EVERY* gun crime. - musubi Dec 21, 10:07 4
        
        you do not see that criminals have guns, while good citizens don't would not cause an problem? nm -- nm - groiny Dec 21, 10:09 3
        
        Citizens have guns now, does that stop crime? Good citizens with guns *at best* re-direct crime. - musubi Dec 21, 10:12 2
        
        Good citizens with guns can prevent crime. Read up on the mall shooting in Oregon. -- nm - Strongbad Dec 21, 10:14
        
        there are lots of factors in stopping crime. - groiny Dec 21, 10:13
        
        we should certainly take them away from people who cannot use and/or secure them responsibly. -- nm - znufrii Dec 21, 09:53
        
        it is an interesting debate, because I do believe that - groiny Dec 21, 09:52 3
        
        The Sandy Hook guns were legal. - musubi Dec 21, 09:59 2
        
        that is not what I am saying. - groiny Dec 21, 10:01 1
        
        The first step is making it illegal to even possess them. Just making them illegal doesn't make them disappear. - musubi Dec 21, 10:05
- Take away the guns is the best solution. I don't care if it's the hardest. - musubi Dec 21, 09:46
- it's been done (succesfully) everywhere else. we're not that special -- nm - prisoner 24601 Dec 21, 09:45 3
  - Oh, indeed. -- (link) - Dr.Vermin Dec 21, 09:51
  - I love your optimism. nm -- nm - groiny Dec 21, 09:47 1
    - either we accept the current reality or we choose to change it. i choose to not accept it -- nm - prisoner 24601 Dec 21, 09:49
- So, because the fight is hard, let's not do the one thing that would actually work? - TWuG Dec 21, 09:44 11
  - no, lets do SOMETHING while we wait for that other thing to happen. - groiny Dec 21, 09:46 10
    - "DO SOMETHING, ANYTHING, EVEN IF IT CAUSES OTHER PROBLEMS" is a bad way to do things. (nm) - musubi Dec 21, 09:52 2
      - even if it MIGHT cause other problems. - groiny Dec 21, 09:53 1
        
        Say it's not hundreds. Say it's just 20 (seems a low rate considering the # of guns you'd be adding), then aren't you just replicated the tragedy - musubi Dec 21, 09:58
    - I'm not a proponent of busy work if that busy work is both expensive and ineffective. -- nm - TWuG Dec 21, 09:48 6
      - ok, so then we accept the reality that we could very well have more of these "incidents" while we wait. nm -- nm - groiny Dec 21, 09:51 5
        
        You accept that even if you do the supposed "solution" of armed guards, more of these incidents can happen? - musubi Dec 21, 09:53 4
        
        we can't say it would help or it would not. - groiny Dec 21, 09:54 3
        
        again, yes, we have - as Kim pointed out, there was a guard in Columbine. -- nm - Andie Dec 21, 10:20
        
        We can make educated guesses. And those educated guess suggest that it's creates more problems than fixes. - musubi Dec 21, 09:55 1
        
        I certainly don't accept this premise. Do you suggest that having armed police on the streets makes the streets less safe? - Dr.Vermin Dec 21, 10:06

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The point is, it's *not* a solution. Changing the names of the dead doesn't keep them from being dead. (nm)

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The point is, it's not a solution. Changing the names of the dead doesn't keep them from being dead. (nm)