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In Oregon, a plan to eliminate tuition and loans at state colleges... -- (link)

Posted by Don Homer (aka DonHomer) Jul 3 '13, 10:42

(No message)

link (www.nytimes.com)

Responses:

Here is a list of some countries with free post secondary education: - Andie Jul 3, 11:04 7
- Oh man. What would free secondary education in the United Arab Emirates be like? -- nm - con_carne Jul 3, 11:06
- So a whole bunch of 2nd world nations, a fair bit of 3rd world nations, and the French. - Will Hunting Jul 3, 11:05 5
  - i actually think the list shows that it doesn't hurt or help. Finland, Denmark, Norway are doing very very well, for instance. Others not so much. -- nm - Andie Jul 3, 11:08 1
    - also, i doubt Barbados or Malta would like being called 2nd world countries! (i would love to go do my Masters in Barbados!) -- nm - Andie Jul 3, 11:10
  - and scandanavia... -- nm - Andie Jul 3, 11:07
  - and a couple of the more desirable places to live on the planet (Finland, Denmark). -- nm - Don Homer Jul 3, 11:07
  - hey if Greece, Spain, and Italy are on the list it must be the financial prudent thing to do! -- nm - Beaker Jul 3, 11:06
Wouldn't this disincentivize majoring in fields that are actually in demand and pay well? - Strongbad Jul 3, 10:47 43
- Do you actually want to live in a world where everybody approaches school in this way, though? -- nm - con_carne Jul 3, 11:01 6
  - Yes. - Will Hunting Jul 3, 11:08 5
    - As it was mentioned below, surely you can see how problematic it would be to have the state getting into the business of deciding what people should - con_carne Jul 3, 11:17 4
      - The State is NOT deciding what people should be studying in this Plan. -- nm - Strongbad Jul 3, 11:57
      - That is a concern. But at the end of the day, college costs are out of control - Will Hunting Jul 3, 11:22 2
        
        Charlie is right. Public universities (which is what we're talking about) exist precisely to have some form of control over costs/tuition - con_carne Jul 3, 11:33
        
        costs are not out of control. tuition is out of control because the states have consistently reduced the portion of the costs that they pick up -- nm - charlie Jul 3, 11:27
- I wouldn't think so - lawyers will still be lawyers. There are bigger problems with this approach. - Roger More Jul 3, 10:58
- i think if a field is in demand and pays well, the people who want to major in it are going to major in it - charlie Jul 3, 10:52 19
  - I think if a field is in demand and pays well, a public university should do what it can to steer people towards it - Strongbad Jul 3, 10:55 18
    - I thought conservatives wanted "market forces" to decide all that for us -- nm - con_carne Jul 3, 11:03
    - what if they predict wrong? -- nm - loosilu Jul 3, 11:03
    - Why? -- nm - mara Jul 3, 10:57 14
      - Part of the purpose of education is to provide students with the skills they need to enter and succeed in the workforce. - Roger More Jul 3, 11:02 12
        
        If they had no problem with me getting a literature degree under the old payment/loan system, why would they under this one? -- nm - mara Jul 3, 11:06 11
        
        Becuase you used to pay the costs of your degree. Those teachers will still draw a salary; now funded by the taxpayers alone. -- nm - Will Hunting Jul 3, 11:09 5
        
        Where does it mention taxes?? -- nm - mara Jul 3, 11:12 4
        
        How else will state schools fund their programs if they are no longer charging tuition? -- nm - Name Withheld By Request Jul 3, 11:13 3
        
        Okay, just read the article: That percentage pay is still going to be a form of taxation on the student's earning afterward. -- nm - Name Withheld By Request Jul 3, 11:14
        
        According to the article, students repay by committing a percentage of their future income. -- nm - mara Jul 3, 11:14 1
        
        Yes, but that's still a form of taxation. "Every dollar you earn in your working life will have three cents removed from it at the start." - Name Withheld By Request Jul 3, 11:16
        
        Because under this system, taxpayers would be footing 100% of the bill. -- nm - Roger More Jul 3, 11:08 4
        
        Not at all. All students with degrees are contributing to the repayment. -- nm - mara Jul 3, 11:10 3
        
        If it's just funded by those who benefit from the scheme, I don't have an issue with it. - Roger More Jul 3, 11:20 2
        
        They're already doing that kind of counseling. This payment scheme is a seperate issue entirely. -- nm - mara Jul 3, 11:22 1
        
        Sure. But it's the question you asked. SB: "public unis should be steering students toward in-demand courses". Mara: "why?" -- nm - Roger More Jul 3, 11:26
      - so they can be useful and economically productive members of society! - znufrii Jul 3, 10:59
    - i don't think they have an obligation to steer anyone anywhere -- nm - charlie Jul 3, 10:57
- The "pay well" part isn't as necessary if kids aren't going into debt to get their degrees. -- nm - TWuG Jul 3, 10:50 5
  - Or put another way: The thing that is perturbing the educational system is the perception that pay rate defines social value. - TWuG Jul 3, 10:54 2
    - *blink* - znufrii Jul 3, 10:54 1
      - :-) -- nm - TWuG Jul 3, 10:55
  - Student debt isn't the only cost of a middle-age lifestyle. -- nm - Name Withheld By Request Jul 3, 10:53 1
    - the way Gen Y in America is going right now, it actually will be -- nm - charlie Jul 3, 10:56
- Just for the money? Possibly. Nothing wrong with incentivizing going into a field of work you'd actually enjoy. -- nm - mara Jul 3, 10:49 8
  - From a society-planning standpoint, that's how you end up with a number of degreed citizens who feel they cannot find suitable employment. - Name Withheld By Request Jul 3, 10:52 7
    - The point is less student loan debt, not greater governance. -- nm - mara Jul 3, 10:55 1
      - Every policy choice is about governance. -- nm - Name Withheld By Request Jul 3, 10:56
    - instead of having a $100k degree and still unable to find employment suitable to service that debt? -- nm - charlie Jul 3, 10:53 4
      - And there's no in between that and free? -- nm - Name Withheld By Request Jul 3, 10:55 3
        
        If it were up to me, I'd subsidize the hell out of education at every level. Knowledge is powerful - TWuG Jul 3, 10:58
        
        why should there be? -- nm - charlie Jul 3, 10:57 1
        
        A few reasons... One, it allows for some priority incentives. Two, when something is perceived to be "free", there are not-tiny segments who will.... - Name Withheld By Request Jul 3, 11:09
man, if redmond gets pissed about people on food stamps buying Doritos -- nm - charlie Jul 3, 10:44
starts to consider transfering to do my master's degree... and then, for the hell of it, start working on a 2nd B.A. -- nm - i'm not dead yet ! Jul 3, 10:43

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