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Related to below discussion. No phrase scares me more than "good guys with guns".

Posted by loosilu (aka loosilu2) Sep 17 '13, 07:46

It's all over the interwebs today. People saying the usual: There should have been more "good guys with guns" to take this guy down. The Navy Yard is actually one of the few places this might not be so bad, because there are so many trained people. But even there, it is hard to see how a shootout in a cafeteria could have been made BETTER by random people acting in an uncoordinated way, shooting under duress.

Responses:

could be wrong here, but the impression I got was that is the cause of reports of additional shooters, and the reason the situation lasted so long - znufrii Sep 17, 07:49
it all depends on each individual situation. - groiny Sep 17, 07:47 34
- who gets to decide? the untrained civilians with concealed carry permits? -- nm - loosilu Sep 17, 07:48 33
  - if they have concealed carry permits, they are not untrained. nm -- nm - groiny Sep 17, 07:49 32
    - Training doesn't mean knowing how to pull the trigger. Cops and soldiers have to train constantly. -- nm - loosilu Sep 17, 07:50 31
      - cops and soldiers kill innocents all the time, by accident. nm -- nm - groiny Sep 17, 07:54 30
        
        That is not helping your point -- nm - amoxy Sep 17, 07:58 9
        
        sure it is. - groiny Sep 17, 08:00 8
        
        though you most likely increase your chance of being shot if someone attempts to shoot back. -- nm - Truman Sep 17, 08:02
        
        odds are, you now have 2 people firing indiscrimiantely in a crowded room and the victims are now - Will Hunting Sep 17, 08:02 3
        
        again, what chance do I have if it is just one guy with the gun, killing everyone? -- nm - groiny Sep 17, 08:04 2
        
        How would your chances be if we had some gun control. No automatic weapons or limited clip sizes so you had time to get out while he reloads? - pmb Sep 17, 08:08
        
        You have a chance to get to one of the multiple exits in the room. - Will Hunting Sep 17, 08:06
        
        you can't eliminate the possiblity. You can IMPROVE it dramatically with training. Lack of training, on the other hand, virtually guarantees - loosilu Sep 17, 08:01 2
        
        it does no such thing. nm -- nm - groiny Sep 17, 08:01 1
        
        I don't see how you can make that argument. You honestly think that untrained (or massively less trained and experienced people) will do as well as - pmb Sep 17, 08:05
        
        and they are trained. -- nm - loosilu Sep 17, 07:56
        
        probably not helping the point you wanna make unless its conceal carry is a bad idea. - Will Hunting Sep 17, 07:55 12
        
        Exactly. Like the theater shooting. How many more people would have been killed by a concerned citizen trying to take out the bad guy? -- nm - Jim Sep 17, 07:57 11
        
        Just the other day in New York cops shot 2 innocent bystanders going after a guy they thought was pulling a gun (he wasn't). The guy they were - pmb Sep 17, 08:01 3
        
        Why not? Everyone is saying that conceal carry will help stop perpetrators. You think they'll show better judgment than trained officers? -- nm - pmb Sep 17, 08:06 1
        
        Sorry this should go under Groiny's post. -- nm - pmb Sep 17, 08:07
        
        I assume they would not be going after the guy? -- nm - groiny Sep 17, 08:02
        
        My idiot buddies were going on how it woulda been different - Will Hunting Sep 17, 08:00
        
        There are some videos out there of "concerned citizens" pulling otu a gun to stop a bad guy. it's terrifying. - loosilu Sep 17, 07:58 3
        
        I would have assumed the media would have been all over these types of stories -- nm - Beaker Sep 17, 07:59 2
        
        I saw one where an old guy stopped a robbery and he was shooting kind of wild. nm -- nm - groiny Sep 17, 08:00
        
        check the youtubes -- nm - loosilu Sep 17, 08:00
        
        which is kind of where I was headed with the depends on the situation. - groiny Sep 17, 07:58
        
        alternativelt, maybe the citizen takes him out before he gets started - Beaker Sep 17, 07:58
        
        that...doesn't support your point. -- nm - znufrii Sep 17, 07:55 5
        
        it kinda does, training does not equal 100% certainty. nm -- nm - groiny Sep 17, 07:56 4
        
        I don't think anyone's making the argument that it does. - znufrii Sep 17, 08:00 2
        
        but you cannot automatically assume that all concealed carry people are morons either. nm -- nm - groiny Sep 17, 08:01 1
        
        which is why I'm not the one making that argument. -- nm - znufrii Sep 17, 08:02
        
        where does that % with less training? -- nm - loosilu Sep 17, 07:57

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Related to below discussion. No phrase scares me more than "good guys with guns".

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