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In response to "I think my new litmis test for whether or not to be upset about something is to see whether Adam Baldwin is upset by it." by TWuG

"Which FrogThor?" -- nm

Posted by What I'm reminded of every comic controversy (aka Reagen) Mar 17 '15, 19:26

(No message)

Responses:

Hee! My mental picture of Frog Thor makes me laugh and laugh. nm - ralph wiggum Mar 17, 19:48 2
- You've got him all pec'd and mulleted up, don't you. -- nm - Reagen Mar 17, 19:50 1
  - It's sort of a combination between that and this pic (nmblink) - ralph wiggum Mar 17, 19:53 [flickr]
The comics industry has a pretty serious problem with misogyny. Too many old, white dudes just not getting it, both on the - TWuG Mar 17, 19:29 77
- All hail the new thought police! - Scots-IrishStephen Mar 17, 19:37 74
  - Don't be on the Adam Baldwin side of this. It is an ugly place. -- nm - TWuG Mar 17, 19:45 48
    - I've followed it fairly closely, not just the one-sided bullshit msm coverage, there's ugliness on both sides, yes BOTH sides. - Scots-IrishStephen Mar 17, 19:51 47
      - Our perspectives on this could not be more diametrically opposed. - Reagen Mar 17, 19:53 46
        
        The extreme anti-GG crowd is just as vile as the extreme pro side. nm - Dignan Mar 17, 20:09 2
        
        (The Gamerghazi subreddit, for example, is fucking *teeming* with self righteous assholes.) nm - Dignan Mar 17, 20:11 1
        
        Well, it is Reddit. -- nm - Tim Mar 17, 20:17
        
        You've read msm pieces with an absolute bias. I've seen the supposed pro-women/minorities tell women and minorities to kill themselves for supporting - Scots-IrishStephen Mar 17, 19:56 42
        
        You've also said that those women being harrassed shouldn't be able to killfile the harrassers. - tobor.2 Mar 17, 20:02 3
        
        I've said that in the context of the special snowflakes who actually say, I shit you not, criticism and disagreement is harassment. -- nm - Scots-IrishStephen Mar 17, 20:14 2
        
        of course it can, depending on duration, place and manner. - Reagen Mar 17, 20:27
        
        sfek and that it was being used by the IGDA as a blacklist. -- nm - Scots-IrishStephen Mar 17, 20:15
        
        I've read way more than the MSM stuff, let's just leave it at that. - Reagen Mar 17, 20:00 37
        
        Step 1. Deliberately take footage/gameplay out of context. Step 3. Profit. - Scots-IrishStephen Mar 17, 20:12 35
        
        Why should a female developer get a free pass for creating a regressive character just because she's female? - Reagen Mar 17, 20:24 23
        
        So you've never heard of McIntosh, Sarkessian's producer? Because those are his exact words (too much gameplay...) -- nm - Scots-IrishStephen Mar 17, 20:33 4
        
        Also, because obviously some women too want to see a kick-ass female warrior who is "sexy" - Scots-IrishStephen Mar 17, 20:35 3
        
        You've obviously been reading some one-sided bullshit yourself. -- nm - tobor.2 Mar 17, 20:39
        
        No, it's asking why that is the *only* (or close to) representation of women in video games - Reagen Mar 17, 20:37 1
        
        Funny then that Wu's characters in her crappy game all have the same body type that she criticizes... -- nm - Scots-IrishStephen Mar 17, 20:39
        
        The vast majority of GG is perfectly fine with a bigger sandbox, and gender equality. - Dignan Mar 17, 20:28 17
        
        I have yet to see a GamerGate supporter speak out against what's happening to Anita Sarkeesian, Brianna Wu or anyone else that's been threatened or - Tim Mar 17, 20:33 2
        
        Wow. I think it's universally acknowledged that the threats and harrassment are unnacceptable. - Dignan Mar 17, 20:40
        
        Are you kidding me? It was GG who found the Brazilian "journalist" who was threatening Sarkessian. - Scots-IrishStephen Mar 17, 20:37
        
        I've never seen any suggestion that people against GG are negative towards gamers - Reagen Mar 17, 20:32 12
        
        It was the anti-GG press that wrote that spate of "Gamers are Dead" articles a few months ago. - Dignan Mar 17, 20:46 4
        
        The message of that article was "you don't have to be a certain type of person to consider yourself a Gamer anymore". - Reagen Mar 17, 20:50 3
        
        No, the message was "misogyny killed gaming." - Dignan Mar 17, 21:08 2
        
        There are no leaders on either side, just louder voices. - Dignan Mar 17, 21:16
        
        largely because the leaders of GG (such as they are) are part and parcel and complicit in that attitude, from what I see. - Reagen Mar 17, 21:11
        
        Then you're willfully ignoring it. - Scots-IrishStephen Mar 17, 20:41 6
        
        It's clearly referring to the people who are attacking based on misogynistic attitudes, and clearly not towards all people who play games. - Reagen Mar 17, 20:44 5
        
        No, it's used in reference to anyone who has a differing opinion of games. Like Code? You're a goony neck beard loser, etc. - Scots-IrishStephen Mar 17, 20:53 4
        
        I would say that you are 100% misreading that tone. -- nm - Reagen Mar 17, 20:55 3
        
        When it's being said by the same people who use white cis male as a pejorative, I'm pretty confident that I'm not. -- nm - Scots-IrishStephen Mar 17, 21:05 2
        
        Here's the difference. The mostly white male gamers with their panties in a bunch over being inclusive to women are punching down. - TWuG Mar 17, 21:14 1
        
        Except no one is freaking out about including women!!!! - Scots-IrishStephen Mar 17, 21:26
        
        The problem is that those dicks start to become the voice of gamers if that's all you can hear from the gaing community. -- nm - tobor.2 Mar 17, 20:32
        
        If Bayonetta conforms to the same misogynistic attitudes about women already prevalent in games, that's hardly a good thing even if the creator is a - TWuG Mar 17, 20:22 10
        
        The problem with that is you have devs who are now saying that they're actually afraid to create any female characters because there's ALWAYS - Scots-IrishStephen Mar 17, 20:30 8
        
        I would say that based on developments it's a) not a minority b) having a positive effect - Reagen Mar 17, 20:35 7
        
        Sorry, but I call bullshit on your "GG freaking out when minority characters are included" -- nm - Scots-IrishStephen Mar 17, 20:44 3
        
        Dragon Age: Inquitions, for a start. - Reagen Mar 17, 20:46 2
        
        Which isn't representative of the whole.... -- nm - Scots-IrishStephen Mar 17, 20:57 1
        
        Or any time you see developers make a move towards more progressive decisions - Reagen Mar 17, 21:00
        
        Exactly. And the "make your own" suggestion is a bit hard to put in to practice since these games take millions to develop. That requires - TWuG Mar 17, 20:41 2
        
        Didn't GG partly start over a small "make your own" game? - tobor.2 Mar 17, 20:44 1
        
        Depression Quest? -- nm - tobor.2 Mar 17, 20:45
        
        About 46-48% of the gsming community is female, and the area that's had the largest growth the last few years. - tobor.2 Mar 17, 20:29
        
        Thank you. -- nm - Tim Mar 17, 20:06
  - Huh? the creators of the book themselves said "what the hell is this cover?" -- nm - Reagen Mar 17, 19:40 24
    - The artist himself asked that it be pulled. - tobor.2 Mar 17, 19:43
    - Do creators usually get a say in what's put out as a variant cover? -- nm - Scots-IrishStephen Mar 17, 19:43 22
      - Sometimes. Buit the tone of the cover couldn't be further from the tone of the book and was driven by the Marketing team/$$ not "artistic freedom" -- nm - TWuG Mar 17, 19:45 20
        
        I think it was driven more by the fact that it was the 25th anniversary of The Killing Joke that it was paying homage to... -- nm - Scots-IrishStephen Mar 17, 19:53 12
        
        Which is fine and good except that The Killing Joke audience and the audience for this book are separate circles. - TWuG Mar 17, 19:59 5
        
        It also sounded like a lot of the other Joker cvers are lighter in tone, but the artist took it darker. - tobor.2 Mar 17, 20:08 4
        
        I think Eaglesham was just asked to provide "a" cover and given mostly free rein. - TWuG Mar 17, 20:12 3
        
        Has most of the criticism been about the tone or that it promotes violence against women? nm - Dignan Mar 17, 20:19 1
        
        I think there's been both. The less knee-jerky people are arguing tone is the issue. - TWuG Mar 17, 20:27
        
        It is a great piece of art and totally inappropriate for that book. And he agrees on the second part. -- nm - tobor.2 Mar 17, 20:18
        
        And $$$$. -- nm - tobor.2 Mar 17, 19:56 1
        
        Yes, i've already acknowledged that that is one function of variant covers... -- nm - Scots-IrishStephen Mar 17, 19:58
        
        And $$$$. -- nm - tobor.2 Mar 17, 19:56 3
        
        Bery? Is this on yourend or mine? - tobor.2 Mar 17, 19:59 2
        
        Not sure. -- nm - Beryllium Mar 17, 20:05 1
        
        I updated FF a week or so ago, but it hadn't changed that before today. -- nm - tobor.2 Mar 17, 20:09
        
        To drive fans to buy more than one copy of the same book. -- nm - tobor.2 Mar 17, 19:47 6
        
        Yeah, that's what a variant cover is for... -- nm - Scots-IrishStephen Mar 17, 19:52
        
        Sure. It's a common practice and I have no issue with publishers doing it. But the covers should work with the tone of the content they surround. -- nm - TWuG Mar 17, 19:48 4
        
        I know, but frequently they don't. And, as you said, $$$$. -- nm - tobor.2 Mar 17, 19:51 1
        
        Sorry for the multiposts. -- nm - tobor.2 Mar 17, 19:52
        
        I know, but frequently they don't. And, as you said, $$$$. -- nm - tobor.2 Mar 17, 19:51
        
        I know, but frequently they don't. And, as you said, $$$$. -- nm - tobor.2 Mar 17, 19:51
      - I would sure as hell hope so. -- nm - Reagen Mar 17, 19:43
- I absolutely agree; my point is along the lines of "these are the things comics fans readily accept, but have a problem with actual agency - Reagen Mar 17, 19:32 1
  - Oh, no doubt about that. I think a big part of that is that comics, until very recently, were mostly consumed by people - TWuG Mar 17, 19:38

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