ST Alpha - "Zork raises a good point. Additional context to the treatment of first nations in Canada: Residential schools needed to measure MORTALITY RATES. -- (link)" (Reading a Post)

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Zork raises a good point. Additional context to the treatment of first nations in Canada: Residential schools needed to measure MORTALITY RATES. -- (link)

Posted by Beryllium (aka grayman) Oct 6 '15, 11:59

(No message)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_system#Mortality_rates (en.wikipedia.org)

Responses:

"If your son weren't already dead, I'd have him expelled!" -- nm - Rowan Atkinson skit Oct 6, 12:15
I do? Mark the calendar, everyone. -- nm - zork Oct 6, 12:03
[deleted]
Can you imagine any school system in Canada or the US today having a 6-12% die-off every year? -- nm - Beryllium Oct 6, 12:00 36
- We're talking about like 1908 though, right? -- nm - Ender Oct 6, 12:05 27
  - The last one closed in *1996* -- nm - Reagen Oct 6, 12:06 24
    - The first one closed in 1873. " (burned down six days after opening)". hah -- nm - Beryllium Oct 6, 12:12 1
      - (Though, if anyone died, I retract my laugh) -- nm - Beryllium Oct 6, 12:12
    - And what was the mortality rate then? -- nm - Ender Oct 6, 12:07 21
      - Likely ... lower. Early in the century though after five years you had a 30 to 60% chance of being dead. They were still going strong in the 50s/60s. -- nm - zork Oct 6, 12:10
      - Call me doubtful that as many kids were dying of tuberculosis in 1996. -- nm - Ender Oct 6, 12:10 19
        
        garbage food, little heat, high flu rates, and serious beatings (sometimes fatal). It was never all from TB -- nm - zork Oct 6, 12:23 17
        
        My point is, you can't shout "6-12% MORTALITY RATE!!!" and then try to compare that to modern institutions. - Ender Oct 6, 12:33 16
        
        Who did that? Other than someone else comparing to "projects" schools in the US - zork Oct 6, 13:04 11
        
        "Can you imagine any school system in Canada or the US today having a 6-12% die-off every year?"- Beryllium Oct 6, 15:00 (26) -- nm* - Ender Oct 6, 13:06 10
        
        We're talking about like 1908 though, right? -- nm - Ender Oct 6, 15:05 (17) -- nm - Ender Oct 6, 13:07 9
        
        Nope -- nm - zork Oct 6, 15:06 (1) -- nm - Ender Oct 6, 13:08 8
        
        Nope, as in there was horrible shit happening for many decades after that, into the 70s at least. - zork Oct 6, 13:11 7
        
        Bery was certainly comparing it to modern school systems. -- nm - Ender Oct 6, 13:13 6
        
        "Can you imagine?" isn't really a comparison. And the mortality rates in these schools were a lot higher than the Canadian average for school children - Roger More Oct 6, 13:19 2
        
        Which is also an apples and oranges comparison, given that average school children don't go to residential schools. - Ender Oct 6, 13:22 1
        
        The point we are trying to get across is that we are talking about a population that has been disadvantaged for a long period of time. - Roger More Oct 6, 13:27
        
        I was saying it would be unconscionable in a modern school system. - Beryllium Oct 6, 13:16
        
        so reply to him. -- nm - zork Oct 6, 13:14 1
        
        I did, and then you kept replying to me. -- nm - Ender Oct 6, 13:20
        
        No, but the death rate at these schools was a lot higher than the death rate for school-aged children across Canada -- (link) - Roger More Oct 6, 12:41
        
        I'm going to say there was no time in the 18th through 20th century when that kind of mortality rate was normal for school-attending children. -- nm - Reagen Oct 6, 12:40 1
        
        Yeah, same for the forced sterilization rates -- nm - Beryllium Oct 6, 12:41
        
        I'd be very interested in a comparison with the mortality rates of turn-of-the-century US & Canadian orphanages though. -- nm - Ender Oct 6, 12:37
        
        no, although it's still an endemic problem in Native populations. - Reagen Oct 6, 12:12
  - Nope -- nm - zork Oct 6, 12:06 1
    - "The first residential schools were established in the 1840s and the last residential school closed in 1996". They were even sterilizing kids. -- (link) - zork Oct 6, 12:08
- In the US these kids are no longer in the school system at rates equal to 3rd world countries, but some inner urban areas teens are being killed -- nm - zeitgeist Oct 6, 12:04 5
  - 10% some years? Surely not. -- nm - zork Oct 6, 12:06 4
    - honestly, it could have been that high. it is common for parents to buy life insurance on their children to cover funeral expense -- nm - zeitgeist Oct 6, 12:09 3
      - That would be hundreds or thousands a year in NYC alone. -- nm - zork Oct 6, 12:12 2
        
        we're not talking entire cities, but certain 'hoods, schools, San Fran had projects next to Candlestick park, 19 murders in one year on the corner -- nm - zeitgeist Oct 6, 12:16 1
        
        out of several thousand students in the nearby schools, I expect. So, maybe 1% at best. -- nm - zork Oct 6, 12:19
- The kids were just taken hundreds of miles away to be given proper Christian educations but physical, sexual, and cultural abuse were rampant. -- nm - zork Oct 6, 12:02 1
  - See also the U.S. and Australia. Native children being taken away to be "civilized" :( -- nm - Meg Oct 6, 12:07

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