ST Alpha - "Soon we won't need affirmative action anymore, not because we got rid of racism, but because they will have killed the middle class advantages...." (Reading a Post)

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Soon we won't need affirmative action anymore, not because we got rid of racism, but because they will have killed the middle class advantages....

Posted by General Zeit (aka zeitgeist) Dec 10 '15, 15:23

We'll all be dirt poor supplicants

Responses:

taking race into consideration as A factor is not a "qualification." it's a remedy for past race-based discrimination -- nm - jar jar trump Dec 10, 15:24 62
- I will say again, it's more than that. There is an element of that, but it is also about building a student body that is diverse which has merit for - pmb Dec 10, 15:30 61
  - Got it. You do believe a person's skin color is a college qualification. OK. -- nm - Ender Dec 10, 15:34 59
    - Feel free to make up whatever you want about this. I've tried talking to you like an adult about this, but you seem intent on making the responses - pmb Dec 10, 15:37 47
      - 2 kids, 2 races. Live in the same apartment building. Same gpa. Same extracurricular. Same family situation. Same essay. 10 pt diff in SAT. Which gets in? -- nm* - Ender Dec 10, 15:40 42
        
        That's a fantasy you're creating. There are no 2 identical students. As I said, even among white students. But I'll play your silly straw man game - pmb Dec 10, 15:45 35
        
        Or how about the one where a white kid has lower scores and grades and gets in because their father who wasn't a stellar student graduated from the sc - toblr.2 Dec 10, 15:49
        
        I am with Ender. That is BS. -- nm - Spawndroid Dec 10, 15:48 16
        
        How exactly. He has proposed a fantasy game where it is 2 identical students. You have to pick one. Why is race and everything that goes with that - pmb Dec 10, 15:51 14
        
        If is a determining factor it is just another form of racism. Period. - Spawndroid Dec 10, 15:54 13
        
        That IM is actually incorrect. Not doing anything maintains the divisions - TWuGbacca Dec 10, 16:01 1
        
        Not if it is at the cost of excluding others for that very reason. Doing the wrong thing for the right reason is still wrong. -- nm - Spawndroid Dec 10, 16:41
        
        First of all, it's only a determining factor because of the fantasy scenario that was proposed. In the real world it is one factor among many (some - pmb Dec 10, 16:00 10
        
        So you're it's OK if it's just "a" factor, but not "the" factor? That's nonsensical. -- nm - Endor Dec 10, 16:12 9
        
        What are you not getting. There is no "the" factor. That's not even what's at issue in the case. It is a factor among many that is considered in - pmb Dec 10, 16:16 8
        
        If the amount of melanin in a person's skin isn't putting them ahead of people with less melanin then why are we considering it at all? - Ender Dec 10, 16:26 7
        
        Not necessarily. And that's the point. How are you not getting this. Is your view that it should be just a formulaic determination based on grades - pmb Dec 10, 16:41
        
        One reason is that having a diverse student body is best for all of the students. -- nm - Krusty Dec 10, 16:34 4
        
        Diverse how? Again we're back to "same life experience, different skin color". Nobody's saying different life experiences don't change qualifications. -- nm - Ender Dec 10, 16:35 3
        
        Because it would better reflect the real world. -- nm - toblr.2 Dec 10, 16:38 2
        
        ...in skin color only. -- nm - Ender Dec 10, 16:39 1
        
        So you're actually arguing that black experience and the white experience are exactly the same. That their cultural experience, their perspective, - pmb Dec 10, 16:45
        
        Because it's a state school and has some obligation to represent the population thereof. -- nm - toblr.2 Dec 10, 16:30
        
        Shit, I totally haven't switched my nick on the phone... -- nm - Endor Dec 10, 15:49
        
        Diversity in skin color only. -- nm - Ender Dec 10, 15:47 16
        
        Skin color impacts a lot in this world. Experiences, culture, points of view. Yours is showing right now. - pmb Dec 10, 16:26 2
        
        In fairness, it is VERY hard to see past one's own privilege. - TWuGbacca Dec 10, 16:30 1
        
        I agree. But it's important to try to be cognizant of it. -- nm - pmb Dec 10, 16:43
        
        *ding* -- nm - Strongbad Dec 10, 16:23
        
        Ethnicity and skin color are two different things. Story of my life -- nm - Yoda Dec 10, 16:07
        
        No matter how identical you want to make them, skin color changes the experience of that person. As I said, you want to live the fantasy. But answer - pmb Dec 10, 15:49 8
        
        You seem to be placing a higher value on the life experiences of a minority over a white person, all other data points being equal. - The Death Sceire Dec 10, 16:43 1
        
        On a campus where there are many more white people than black people, the addition of one more white person doesn't add as much to broaden the - pmb Dec 10, 16:52
        
        Easy. Kid who's daddy gave a mill shouldn't get in over another with the same qualifications. - Endor Dec 10, 16:03 5
        
        I missed your SAT score portion of your game. My answer in that scenario then is it depends. Is it higher by one point or 100? Degree would - pmb Dec 10, 16:08 4
        
        TBF, looking back, my phone mangled the SAT difference part pretty badly. -- nm - Ender Dec 10, 16:36 1
        
        Well in your 10 point difference scenario that just isn't a statistically relevant difference. That's maybe one or 2 questions difference at most. - pmb Dec 10, 16:55
        
        Then feel free to sue on donations being a factor. You're the one who brought it into the discussion. -- nm* - Endor Dec 10, 16:14 1
        
        You're the one pretending it doesn't exist. You want to create the fantasy that everyone is on a completely level playing field and every decision is - pmb Dec 10, 16:21
        
        Apparently, that is all that matters. -- nm - Spawndroid Dec 10, 15:49 1
        
        Only in the example Ender built. In the actual case, many many things count, with race being one of them. -- nm - TWuGbacca Dec 10, 16:15
        
        If they're in Texas and in the top10% of their high school, both. -- nm* - toblr.2 Dec 10, 15:42 5
        
        And if not? (You are REALLY determined to drag the non affirmative action situation into the affirmative action discussion.) -- nm* - Ender Dec 10, 15:44 4
        
        It is part of the discussion because that's how it works at the university involved. -- nm - toblr.2 Dec 10, 15:51 1
        
        And was how they enacted affirmative action in admissions. -- nm - toblr.2 Dec 10, 15:58
        
        You do understand that that "Top 10%" process could send unqualified kids to the school, right? That the other process that considers race is likely - TWuGbacca Dec 10, 15:46
        
        depends on the school -- nm - toblr.2 Dec 10, 15:45
      - And let's talk about other criteria that colleges use for these decisions. Did your parents go to our school? Do they make donations? Are those - pmb Dec 10, 15:39 3
        
        Didn't the woman who brought suit expect to get in because her parent/s had? -- nm - toblr.2 Dec 10, 15:40 2
        
        Yup. She expected to get in as a legacy admission. -- nm - Krusty Dec 10, 15:43 1
        
        No privilege there -- nm - General Zeit Dec 10, 15:53
    - A lot of white people, like the girl who brought the suit, think so. They believe their skin color better qualfies them. -- nm* - toblr.2 Dec 10, 15:37
    - what's your remedy for it being a per se disqualification for 190 years? -- nm - jar jar trump Dec 10, 15:36 9
      - In which year do you believe we should no longer discriminate? -- nm - Ender Dec 10, 15:37 8
        
        2078. Specifically, August 12@ 532pm. -- nm* - Reagen Dec 10, 16:00
        
        How about when it goes both ways? -- nm - pmb Dec 10, 15:40
        
        legally, we stopped in 1964. this is about all the years before that -- nm - jar jar trump Dec 10, 15:40 4
        
        Riiight.... -- nm - Endor Dec 10, 16:16 3
        
        you're right, it's all part of the African-American community's 300 year long con to steal a few spots in public colleges away from whitey - jar jar trump Dec 10, 16:22 2
        
        You can argue that this kind of discrimination is ok, you can't seriously argue that judging people by their skin color ISN'T discrimination. -- nm - Ender Dec 10, 16:41 1
        
        legally, racial discrimination is absolutely permissible if it is a narrowly-tailored remedy to demonstrable past discrimination -- (link) - jar jar trump Dec 10, 16:44
        
        The one after the last traffic stop for DWB. -- nm - toblr.2 Dec 10, 15:39
  - And that represents the population also -- nm - toblr.2 Dec 10, 15:32

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Soon we won't need affirmative action anymore, not because we got rid of racism, but because they will have killed the middle class advantages....

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