ST Alpha - "I will say again, it's more than that. There is an element of that, but it is also about building a student body that is diverse which has merit for " (Reading a Post)

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In response to "taking race into consideration as A factor is not a "qualification." it's a remedy for past race-based discrimination -- nm" by jar jar trump

I will say again, it's more than that. There is an element of that, but it is also about building a student body that is diverse which has merit for

Posted by pmb (aka pmb) Dec 10 '15, 15:30

all the students.

Responses:

Got it. You do believe a person's skin color is a college qualification. OK. -- nm - Ender Dec 10, 15:34 59
- Feel free to make up whatever you want about this. I've tried talking to you like an adult about this, but you seem intent on making the responses - pmb Dec 10, 15:37 47
  - 2 kids, 2 races. Live in the same apartment building. Same gpa. Same extracurricular. Same family situation. Same essay. 10 pt diff in SAT. Which gets in? -- nm* - Ender Dec 10, 15:40 42
    - That's a fantasy you're creating. There are no 2 identical students. As I said, even among white students. But I'll play your silly straw man game - pmb Dec 10, 15:45 35
      - Or how about the one where a white kid has lower scores and grades and gets in because their father who wasn't a stellar student graduated from the sc - toblr.2 Dec 10, 15:49
      - I am with Ender. That is BS. -- nm - Spawndroid Dec 10, 15:48 16
        
        How exactly. He has proposed a fantasy game where it is 2 identical students. You have to pick one. Why is race and everything that goes with that - pmb Dec 10, 15:51 14
        
        If is a determining factor it is just another form of racism. Period. - Spawndroid Dec 10, 15:54 13
        
        That IM is actually incorrect. Not doing anything maintains the divisions - TWuGbacca Dec 10, 16:01 1
        
        Not if it is at the cost of excluding others for that very reason. Doing the wrong thing for the right reason is still wrong. -- nm - Spawndroid Dec 10, 16:41
        
        First of all, it's only a determining factor because of the fantasy scenario that was proposed. In the real world it is one factor among many (some - pmb Dec 10, 16:00 10
        
        So you're it's OK if it's just "a" factor, but not "the" factor? That's nonsensical. -- nm - Endor Dec 10, 16:12 9
        
        What are you not getting. There is no "the" factor. That's not even what's at issue in the case. It is a factor among many that is considered in - pmb Dec 10, 16:16 8
        
        If the amount of melanin in a person's skin isn't putting them ahead of people with less melanin then why are we considering it at all? - Ender Dec 10, 16:26 7
        
        Not necessarily. And that's the point. How are you not getting this. Is your view that it should be just a formulaic determination based on grades - pmb Dec 10, 16:41
        
        One reason is that having a diverse student body is best for all of the students. -- nm - Krusty Dec 10, 16:34 4
        
        Diverse how? Again we're back to "same life experience, different skin color". Nobody's saying different life experiences don't change qualifications. -- nm - Ender Dec 10, 16:35 3
        
        Because it would better reflect the real world. -- nm - toblr.2 Dec 10, 16:38 2
        
        ...in skin color only. -- nm - Ender Dec 10, 16:39 1
        
        So you're actually arguing that black experience and the white experience are exactly the same. That their cultural experience, their perspective, - pmb Dec 10, 16:45
        
        Because it's a state school and has some obligation to represent the population thereof. -- nm - toblr.2 Dec 10, 16:30
        
        Shit, I totally haven't switched my nick on the phone... -- nm - Endor Dec 10, 15:49
      - Diversity in skin color only. -- nm - Ender Dec 10, 15:47 16
        
        Skin color impacts a lot in this world. Experiences, culture, points of view. Yours is showing right now. - pmb Dec 10, 16:26 2
        
        In fairness, it is VERY hard to see past one's own privilege. - TWuGbacca Dec 10, 16:30 1
        
        I agree. But it's important to try to be cognizant of it. -- nm - pmb Dec 10, 16:43
        
        *ding* -- nm - Strongbad Dec 10, 16:23
        
        Ethnicity and skin color are two different things. Story of my life -- nm - Yoda Dec 10, 16:07
        
        No matter how identical you want to make them, skin color changes the experience of that person. As I said, you want to live the fantasy. But answer - pmb Dec 10, 15:49 8
        
        You seem to be placing a higher value on the life experiences of a minority over a white person, all other data points being equal. - The Death Sceire Dec 10, 16:43 1
        
        On a campus where there are many more white people than black people, the addition of one more white person doesn't add as much to broaden the - pmb Dec 10, 16:52
        
        Easy. Kid who's daddy gave a mill shouldn't get in over another with the same qualifications. - Endor Dec 10, 16:03 5
        
        I missed your SAT score portion of your game. My answer in that scenario then is it depends. Is it higher by one point or 100? Degree would - pmb Dec 10, 16:08 4
        
        TBF, looking back, my phone mangled the SAT difference part pretty badly. -- nm - Ender Dec 10, 16:36 1
        
        Well in your 10 point difference scenario that just isn't a statistically relevant difference. That's maybe one or 2 questions difference at most. - pmb Dec 10, 16:55
        
        Then feel free to sue on donations being a factor. You're the one who brought it into the discussion. -- nm* - Endor Dec 10, 16:14 1
        
        You're the one pretending it doesn't exist. You want to create the fantasy that everyone is on a completely level playing field and every decision is - pmb Dec 10, 16:21
        
        Apparently, that is all that matters. -- nm - Spawndroid Dec 10, 15:49 1
        
        Only in the example Ender built. In the actual case, many many things count, with race being one of them. -- nm - TWuGbacca Dec 10, 16:15
    - If they're in Texas and in the top10% of their high school, both. -- nm* - toblr.2 Dec 10, 15:42 5
      - And if not? (You are REALLY determined to drag the non affirmative action situation into the affirmative action discussion.) -- nm* - Ender Dec 10, 15:44 4
        
        It is part of the discussion because that's how it works at the university involved. -- nm - toblr.2 Dec 10, 15:51 1
        
        And was how they enacted affirmative action in admissions. -- nm - toblr.2 Dec 10, 15:58
        
        You do understand that that "Top 10%" process could send unqualified kids to the school, right? That the other process that considers race is likely - TWuGbacca Dec 10, 15:46
        
        depends on the school -- nm - toblr.2 Dec 10, 15:45
  - And let's talk about other criteria that colleges use for these decisions. Did your parents go to our school? Do they make donations? Are those - pmb Dec 10, 15:39 3
    - Didn't the woman who brought suit expect to get in because her parent/s had? -- nm - toblr.2 Dec 10, 15:40 2
      - Yup. She expected to get in as a legacy admission. -- nm - Krusty Dec 10, 15:43 1
        
        No privilege there -- nm - General Zeit Dec 10, 15:53
- A lot of white people, like the girl who brought the suit, think so. They believe their skin color better qualfies them. -- nm* - toblr.2 Dec 10, 15:37
- what's your remedy for it being a per se disqualification for 190 years? -- nm - jar jar trump Dec 10, 15:36 9
  - In which year do you believe we should no longer discriminate? -- nm - Ender Dec 10, 15:37 8
    - 2078. Specifically, August 12@ 532pm. -- nm* - Reagen Dec 10, 16:00
    - How about when it goes both ways? -- nm - pmb Dec 10, 15:40
    - legally, we stopped in 1964. this is about all the years before that -- nm - jar jar trump Dec 10, 15:40 4
      - Riiight.... -- nm - Endor Dec 10, 16:16 3
        
        you're right, it's all part of the African-American community's 300 year long con to steal a few spots in public colleges away from whitey - jar jar trump Dec 10, 16:22 2
        
        You can argue that this kind of discrimination is ok, you can't seriously argue that judging people by their skin color ISN'T discrimination. -- nm - Ender Dec 10, 16:41 1
        
        legally, racial discrimination is absolutely permissible if it is a narrowly-tailored remedy to demonstrable past discrimination -- (link) - jar jar trump Dec 10, 16:44
    - The one after the last traffic stop for DWB. -- nm - toblr.2 Dec 10, 15:39
And that represents the population also -- nm - toblr.2 Dec 10, 15:32

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I will say again, it's more than that. There is an element of that, but it is also about building a student body that is diverse which has merit for

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