ST Alpha - "2 kids, 2 races. Live in the same apartment building. Same gpa. Same extracurricular. Same family situation. Same essay. 10 pt diff in SAT. Which gets in? -- nm*" (Reading a Post)

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In response to "Feel free to make up whatever you want about this. I've tried talking to you like an adult about this, but you seem intent on making the responses " by pmb

2 kids, 2 races. Live in the same apartment building. Same gpa. Same extracurricular. Same family situation. Same essay. 10 pt diff in SAT. Which gets in? -- nm*

Posted by Ender Dec 10 '15, 15:40

(No message)

Responses:

That's a fantasy you're creating. There are no 2 identical students. As I said, even among white students. But I'll play your silly straw man game - pmb Dec 10, 15:45 35
- Or how about the one where a white kid has lower scores and grades and gets in because their father who wasn't a stellar student graduated from the sc - toblr.2 Dec 10, 15:49
- I am with Ender. That is BS. -- nm - Spawndroid Dec 10, 15:48 16
  - How exactly. He has proposed a fantasy game where it is 2 identical students. You have to pick one. Why is race and everything that goes with that - pmb Dec 10, 15:51 14
    - If is a determining factor it is just another form of racism. Period. - Spawndroid Dec 10, 15:54 13
      - That IM is actually incorrect. Not doing anything maintains the divisions - TWuGbacca Dec 10, 16:01 1
        
        Not if it is at the cost of excluding others for that very reason. Doing the wrong thing for the right reason is still wrong. -- nm - Spawndroid Dec 10, 16:41
      - First of all, it's only a determining factor because of the fantasy scenario that was proposed. In the real world it is one factor among many (some - pmb Dec 10, 16:00 10
        
        So you're it's OK if it's just "a" factor, but not "the" factor? That's nonsensical. -- nm - Endor Dec 10, 16:12 9
        
        What are you not getting. There is no "the" factor. That's not even what's at issue in the case. It is a factor among many that is considered in - pmb Dec 10, 16:16 8
        
        If the amount of melanin in a person's skin isn't putting them ahead of people with less melanin then why are we considering it at all? - Ender Dec 10, 16:26 7
        
        Not necessarily. And that's the point. How are you not getting this. Is your view that it should be just a formulaic determination based on grades - pmb Dec 10, 16:41
        
        One reason is that having a diverse student body is best for all of the students. -- nm - Krusty Dec 10, 16:34 4
        
        Diverse how? Again we're back to "same life experience, different skin color". Nobody's saying different life experiences don't change qualifications. -- nm - Ender Dec 10, 16:35 3
        
        Because it would better reflect the real world. -- nm - toblr.2 Dec 10, 16:38 2
        
        ...in skin color only. -- nm - Ender Dec 10, 16:39 1
        
        So you're actually arguing that black experience and the white experience are exactly the same. That their cultural experience, their perspective, - pmb Dec 10, 16:45
        
        Because it's a state school and has some obligation to represent the population thereof. -- nm - toblr.2 Dec 10, 16:30
  - Shit, I totally haven't switched my nick on the phone... -- nm - Endor Dec 10, 15:49
- Diversity in skin color only. -- nm - Ender Dec 10, 15:47 16
  - Skin color impacts a lot in this world. Experiences, culture, points of view. Yours is showing right now. - pmb Dec 10, 16:26 2
    - In fairness, it is VERY hard to see past one's own privilege. - TWuGbacca Dec 10, 16:30 1
      - I agree. But it's important to try to be cognizant of it. -- nm - pmb Dec 10, 16:43
  - *ding* -- nm - Strongbad Dec 10, 16:23
  - Ethnicity and skin color are two different things. Story of my life -- nm - Yoda Dec 10, 16:07
  - No matter how identical you want to make them, skin color changes the experience of that person. As I said, you want to live the fantasy. But answer - pmb Dec 10, 15:49 8
    - You seem to be placing a higher value on the life experiences of a minority over a white person, all other data points being equal. - The Death Sceire Dec 10, 16:43 1
      - On a campus where there are many more white people than black people, the addition of one more white person doesn't add as much to broaden the - pmb Dec 10, 16:52
    - Easy. Kid who's daddy gave a mill shouldn't get in over another with the same qualifications. - Endor Dec 10, 16:03 5
      - I missed your SAT score portion of your game. My answer in that scenario then is it depends. Is it higher by one point or 100? Degree would - pmb Dec 10, 16:08 4
        
        TBF, looking back, my phone mangled the SAT difference part pretty badly. -- nm - Ender Dec 10, 16:36 1
        
        Well in your 10 point difference scenario that just isn't a statistically relevant difference. That's maybe one or 2 questions difference at most. - pmb Dec 10, 16:55
        
        Then feel free to sue on donations being a factor. You're the one who brought it into the discussion. -- nm* - Endor Dec 10, 16:14 1
        
        You're the one pretending it doesn't exist. You want to create the fantasy that everyone is on a completely level playing field and every decision is - pmb Dec 10, 16:21
  - Apparently, that is all that matters. -- nm - Spawndroid Dec 10, 15:49 1
    - Only in the example Ender built. In the actual case, many many things count, with race being one of them. -- nm - TWuGbacca Dec 10, 16:15
If they're in Texas and in the top10% of their high school, both. -- nm* - toblr.2 Dec 10, 15:42 5
- And if not? (You are REALLY determined to drag the non affirmative action situation into the affirmative action discussion.) -- nm* - Ender Dec 10, 15:44 4
  - It is part of the discussion because that's how it works at the university involved. -- nm - toblr.2 Dec 10, 15:51 1
    - And was how they enacted affirmative action in admissions. -- nm - toblr.2 Dec 10, 15:58
  - You do understand that that "Top 10%" process could send unqualified kids to the school, right? That the other process that considers race is likely - TWuGbacca Dec 10, 15:46
  - depends on the school -- nm - toblr.2 Dec 10, 15:45

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