ST Alpha - "I think his actions detracted from his abilities. If he weren't such a knucklehead, he might have a shot. " (Reading a Post)

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In response to "Not only shouldn't ManRam get into the HoF he has no chance and not for the reason you think..." by Gullible SW Fan Mel

I think his actions detracted from his abilities. If he weren't such a knucklehead, he might have a shot.

Posted by Groindo (Green lives matter) (aka groiny) Jan 7 '16, 10:41

but he has way too many things NOT in his favor here, and it is a shame, because as JUST a ballplayer, he was fantastic.

Responses:

The thing is with him as opposed to say Bonds...we have no idea for when Ramirez started using - Will Hunting Jan 7, 10:47 15
- We don't *really* know about Bonds. And there's a bump in performance for Manny around 98/99. -- (edited) - musubi Jan 7, 10:51 11
  - If it were just based on stats, Manny is a lock. His overall hitting stats are slightly better than Frank Thomas'. -- nm* - Inigo Jan 7, 10:55 10
    - Manny's numbers are superficially better, but when you account for park effects, I think Thomas is the slightly better hitter. - musubi Jan 7, 11:00 7
      - I think Thomas was a better hitter in his prime, but his prime didn't last nearly as long as Manny's did. -- nm - Inigo Jan 7, 11:05 4
        
        Manny's longevity is presumably at least partially due to his failed tests. - musubi Jan 7, 11:07
        
        Thomas was a scarier hitter than Manny. That's difficult to quantify, but Sheff and him had a presence that differentiated them from other sluggers. -- nm - Sith Lord Sexypants Jan 7, 11:07 2
        
        For a time, yes. But in 1998, 99, 2002, 2004, 2005 he was just a decent hitter those years. - Inigo Jan 7, 11:14
        
        Sheffield looked like he was wielding a weapon. - Mel Profit Jan 7, 11:11
      - Thomas is 156 vs 152 for Manny in OPS+ so yeah. -- nm - Will Hunting Jan 7, 11:01 1
        
        It's even closer in WRC+, 154 to 153, but the point remains - musubi Jan 7, 11:05
    - wha???? -- nm - Groindo (Green lives matter) Jan 7, 10:56 1
      - Manny had more HR, RBI, Runs, 2B, Batting Average, Slugging, and total bases. -- (edited) - Inigo Jan 7, 11:02
- as I don't have stats in front of me, but I think you can probably see it in there. - Groindo (Green lives matter) Jan 7, 10:49 2
  - His first full season was over .300 30 plus homers and 107 RBI. - Inigo Jan 7, 10:53
  - He hit 17hr's in 300 at-bats at 22 years old. - Will Hunting Jan 7, 10:53
agreed. there were so many things that just irked everyone. - Gullible SW Fan Mel Jan 7, 10:45 4
- the whole "Manny being Manny" thing was the worst thing that could have happened to him. - Groindo (Green lives matter) Jan 7, 10:47 1
  - RIght. at first it was funny and even endearing but then later, when things kept happening and the incidents became darker, it turned. -- nm - Gullible SW Fan Mel Jan 7, 10:52
- He also... - Gullible SW Fan Mel Jan 7, 10:46 1
  - yeah, and that guy was old. -- nm - Deeve Jan 7, 10:50
this is my impression. half-asser -- nm - humbug Jan 7, 10:44

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I think his actions detracted from his abilities. If he weren't such a knucklehead, he might have a shot.

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