ST Alpha - "In all these various gun arguments going back and forth, I struggle with one key concept. (Semi-long rant question) -- (edited)" (Reading a Post)

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In all these various gun arguments going back and forth, I struggle with one key concept. (Semi-long rant question) -- (edited)

Posted by Volnelk Jun 22 '16, 19:57

there are many subgroups that make the argument for guns. Many people appear to be in several of the groups while others are only in one.

You have hunters and sport shooters who want guns because it's a hobby and that's what they enjoy doing.

You have people that feel better protected from criminals by owning a gun.

Then you have people who don't trust the government. These are the people I am seeing today. People who's counter to 'Nobody on the no-fly list should be able to get a gun' argument is 'Well, you can't trust the government that made the list.

What I have a hard time reconciling is that that same group would consider themselves hardcore AMERICAN. I consider myself American and I consider the government to be the representation of that America. It seems counter to me to be so pro America and yet so anti-government.

Is it that they consider the country itself separate from the government? If so, then how can they also cling so hard to the constitution and the rights it affords them?

It seems tangled up to say 'I love the constitution but I don't trust the government.'

Sorry. It's late.

Responses:

I've seen some tweets that say it's not even the no-fly list that would be used. It's a (larger?) "terror watch list" -- nm - ty97 Jun 22, 20:08 6
- My main point is the idea that the government that wrote the 2nd amendment is the same government that made the no-fly list. The US Government. - Volnelk Jun 22, 20:11 3
  - because typically they see the government as some "other" - Reagen Jun 22, 20:16
  - I'm not sure if some of these folks would agree that it's the same government. - ty97 Jun 22, 20:15 1
    - Probably right. But by that logic, that group of people wouldn't fight in the armed forces, etc. - Volnelk Jun 22, 20:19
- A difference of a couple thousand suspects, at most -- nm - gerald Jun 22, 20:09
- which is rather secret with no visibility to the monitoring/control (or lack thereof) of the quality, let alone ability to appeal -- nm - ty97 Jun 22, 20:09
I can understand being skeptical of the no-fly list, because it's a byzantine and unappealable restriction - Reagen Jun 22, 20:04 2
- did I ever mention how I was denied the American side of the Nexus card because my name resembled one on a no-fly list? - mafic Jun 22, 20:08 1
  - I frequently have to get police clearances for volunteer work. I *always* get called back in for secondary fingerprinting because - Reagen Jun 22, 20:11
i get it. it's extreme, but i get it. also, regardless of how you feel about the US government, we've all seen Red Dawn. - colin Jun 22, 20:03 5
- Basing security policy on John Milius' wet dreams is a solid plan -- nm - gerald Jun 22, 20:08 1
  - at least it's a plan. -- nm* - colin Jun 22, 20:12
- hate keeps you warm at night? -- nm - Reagen Jun 22, 20:05 2
  - fear. -- nm - colin Jun 22, 20:08 1
    - see, cause you're C. Thomas Howell. -- nm - Reagen Jun 22, 20:11
Well, as it pertains to the no-fly list, the media is littered with stories of racism and pure idiocy guiding the interpretation of that list. - Beryllium Jun 22, 20:00 9
- Regardless, wouldn't it follow that if in any way you are saying a person is not to be trusted, shouldn't that lack of trust be pervasive? - Volnelk Jun 22, 20:03 7
  - It isn't just "they" that are on the watch list. It is anyone who shares their name. -- nm - Beryllium Jun 22, 20:11 6
    - I mean, keep in mind that I support pervasive gun control for the entire nation - nay, continent. But this approach is ... - Beryllium Jun 22, 20:13 5
      - I didn't intend for this to really be about the list. It was more about trusting the government, period. -- nm - Volnelk Jun 22, 20:14
      - Also, the gun problem isn't about terrorists or muslims. It's about white-ass fucknuts with anger and entitlement issues. -- nm - Beryllium Jun 22, 20:14 3
        
        That might be closer to the problem. They feel that they are "real" Americans entitled to interpret the Constitution their way because they don't tru - . Jun 22, 20:21 2
        
        See my response above. Then you'd think that same group wouldn't fight in the armed forces, etc. -- nm - Volnelk Jun 22, 20:22 1
        
        Didn't say it answered the whole thing. Though I think to some degree they join up because it adds to the entitlement. - . Jun 22, 20:26
- (And when I say racism, I also mean religious persecution partly driven by outward appearances) -- nm - Beryllium Jun 22, 20:00

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In all these various gun arguments going back and forth, I struggle with one key concept. (Semi-long rant question) -- (edited)

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