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Regarding the b2 discussion...

Posted by David (aka David) Jul 28 '16, 07:46

I think the comparison of Bush as VP vs. Clinton as First Lady is interesting. As the driving force of her husband's political career, she was involved in more decisions than any FL ever. Similarly, since Reagan was a shadow of himself during his second term, Bush was more involved than virtually any other 20th century VP.

In other words, that's an unquestionable political positive for each one. Picking the better one is a splitting of hairs.

More than anything, what we can take from the discussion is that having spectacular qualifications for the Oval Office in no way assures that you'll perform adequately. Bush I, while not the trainwreck his son was, objectively failed as POTUS. Hillary will face obstacles from day one as a seemingly damaged candidate since if she wins, she will have beaten The Donald.

Responses:

I disagree with "objectively failed". In foreign policy he succeeded with the Gulf, NAFTA, and START, which is significant. He struggled domestically -- nm - Max Jul 28, 07:55 15
- Nobody with the Gulf War on their resume succeeded in foreign policy. - David Jul 28, 08:03 13
  - He put together an Arab coalition to attack an Arab nation without anyone taking shots as Israel. - Will Hunting Jul 28, 08:18 10
    - Agreed. And at the time I thought it was wrong we didn't eliminate Saddam - amoxy Jul 28, 08:40
    - This thread stuns me. -- nm - David Jul 28, 08:34
    - This. Gulf War 1 was necessary and executed with very little mission creep. As wars go, it went about as well as one can. -- nm - TWuG Jul 28, 08:27 7
      - I tend to agree, but think that it's possible that more could have been done with that victory that might have led to Iraq war II being avoided. -- (edited) - pmb Jul 28, 08:33 6
        
        I think if we hadn't stepped away when we did, we lose the coalition and it's now fermenting hate amongst the rest of the Arab World. - Will Hunting Jul 28, 08:35 5
        
        I agree, but we might have been able to leave ourselves with stronger inspection rights and greater intelligence assets there. -- nm - pmb Jul 28, 08:58
        
        I agree. Going into Baghdad would have presented us with what we have now but earlier. - Mel Profit Jul 28, 08:51 3
        
        but in a pre 9/11, pre Al Qaeda world -- nm - gerald Jul 28, 08:56 2
        
        But we would have created a vacuum still, be it Hezbollah, the beginnings of AQ or whatnot. -- nm - Will Hunting Jul 28, 09:08
        
        for all we know that would have created AQ... - Mel Profit Jul 28, 08:58
  - No president succeeds in everything and I don't see the first Gulf War as a disaster. His son's was. - pmb Jul 28, 08:12
  - I'd say he failed to establish an intel network after winning the war, but he still won it. And I'd still say START is more important. -- nm - Max Jul 28, 08:05
- I would also say that some of his domestic struggles were part of the inevitable cyclical swings in the economy. After a long recovery under Reagan, - pmb Jul 28, 08:02

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Regarding the b2 discussion...

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