ST Alpha - "for David and Stephen: The study that's *not* good is the one study that showed a possible link. That one study was fraudulent. -- nm" (Reading a Post)

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for David and Stephen: The study that's not good is the one study that showed a possible link. That one study was fraudulent. -- nm

Posted by loosilu (aka loosilu) Apr 22 '09, 11:08

(No message)

Responses:

a person dies due to wearing a seatbelt / all seatbelts should be banned. -- nm - Beaker Apr 22, 11:25 7
- it's not even that. - Reagen Apr 22, 11:27 6
  - It's not even that. - mara Apr 22, 11:33 4
    - that sounds right. -- nm - loosilu Apr 22, 11:36
    - I'm giving some credit - Reagen Apr 22, 11:35 1
      - I think you're confusing proof with evidence. -- nm - mara Apr 22, 11:39
    - "If the seatbelt fits, you must ban vaccinations!" -- nm - Beryllium Apr 22, 11:34
  - ban all cars -- nm - Danedukenuuk Apr 22, 11:31
actually it not really a valid argument at all - Danedukenuuk Apr 22, 11:24
Eli Stone already won this case! -- nm - Beaker Apr 22, 11:15
As we discussed at that point, none of this will be settled for years. - David Apr 22, 11:13 14
- if a parent thinks their child were better at communicating BEFORE the vaccine they have a problem - Danedukenuuk Apr 22, 11:18
- The gist of my position is I hope that all these people are not wasting precious time and money on the vaccine connection, if it is something else. -- nm - loosilu Apr 22, 11:16 12
  - When you have kids lets see how willing you are not to explore every possibility based on an "if" -- nm - Stephen Apr 22, 11:20 11
    - I have a kid and didn't think twice in getting her vaccinated. I don't believe there's any link between autism and vaccines - TWuG Apr 22, 11:29 1
      - agreed. and not getting vaccinated almost guarantees future problems -- nm - Beaker Apr 22, 11:32
    - my kids are vaccinated since thats a usefull think, but not babtised since thats up to then when they get older - Danedukenuuk Apr 22, 11:27 1
      - You have kids? -- nm - David Apr 22, 11:28
    - Two can play this game. When I have kids I don't want them to be at risk because of someone's else's decision made out of misinformation. -- nm - Reagen Apr 22, 11:22
    - I'm going to vaccinate my kids and feel very strongly about that. -- nm - loosilu Apr 22, 11:20 5
      - (side-note: *you* having kids??? ;)) -- nm - Don Homer Apr 22, 11:21 4
        
        I have no idea where you're going with this but it can't be good. -- nm - loosilu Apr 22, 11:22 3
        
        see the smiley ;) -- nm - Don Homer Apr 22, 11:22 2
        
        Smileys don't annul the impact of all subjects ... :) -- nm - Beryllium Apr 22, 11:23 1
        
        your face doesn't annul the impact of all subjects! -- nm - mafic Apr 22, 11:27
Also, who commissions a study, can have a bearing on the results. I would imagine. -- nm - Loyola Apr 22, 11:11 13
- It absolutely should not. That's why studies are peer-reviewed before publication. -- nm - loosilu Apr 22, 11:11 12
  - What about those "studies" where scientists say that, I don't know, washing your hair everyday makes you live longer. Or eating chocolate everyday - Loyola Apr 22, 11:15 11
    - I think a statement like "eating chocolate every day makes you healthier" is always the media's interpretation of a study, not the study's conclusion. -- nm - mara Apr 22, 11:19 1
      - mainstream science reporting is very, very poor, to be sure. -- nm - Reagen Apr 22, 11:25
    - is it published in a major, peer-reviewed journal? give me links. -- nm - loosilu Apr 22, 11:16 8
      - I have no idea. Are you saying that no study in history that has ever appeared in a major peer reviewed journal has been proen to be false? -- nm - Loyola Apr 22, 11:19 7
        
        Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think loosi's point is that appearing in a major peer-reviewed journal adds a large amount of credibility to a study - Strongbad Apr 22, 11:20 4
        
        Peer review is not the be-all/end-all it is often touted as, but it does help. -- nm - Beryllium Apr 22, 11:21 3
        
        It helps a great deal, but it's not perfect. -- nm - Strongbad Apr 22, 11:22
        
        it makes it a lot harder to poke holes in the reserach. -- nm - loosilu Apr 22, 11:22 1
        
        So we agree, then. -- nm - Beryllium Apr 22, 11:28
        
        ^^^ this post gets a nomination for "Generalisation of the Year" -- nm - Roger More Apr 22, 11:20
        
        ok, this is ridiculous. sorry. -- nm - loosilu Apr 22, 11:19
and since thimerosol has been removed from the MMR vaccine, autism rates have not changed in the areas where it's administered. -- nm - Reagen Apr 22, 11:09 35
- Also, the studies have been conducted by entities such as CDC, NIH, and government health agenices in other countries. - loosilu Apr 22, 11:11 34
  - Oh, shut the fuck up with that IM. -- nm - David Apr 22, 11:15 7
    - that was not necessary. -- nm - loosilu Apr 22, 11:16 6
      - That IM deserved much worse. I'm going to walk away since you take enough of a beating here, but you shouldn't talk to me for a while. -- nm - David Apr 22, 11:19 5
        
        it did,,,my ohh my you do have issues -- nm - Danedukenuuk Apr 22, 11:36 4
        
        According to you two, anyway. -- nm - David Apr 22, 11:39 3
        
        i just hope for you and you'r kids that not many think the way you do - Danedukenuuk Apr 22, 11:45 2
        
        Everyone should always think the way I do about everything. Please pay attention. -- nm - David Apr 22, 11:47 1
        
        not when people will die due to misinformation, THEN it's fine to look at the evidence and lean -- nm - Danedukenuuk Apr 22, 12:00
  - It's a darn shame that autism happens, but the vaccination agenda is willfull ignorance by a dangerous group of people. -- nm - Don Homer Apr 22, 11:13 16
    - Yeah....concerned parents...what a dangerous fucking group of people. -- nm - Stephen Apr 22, 11:16 15
      - yes EXACTLY not having kids vaccinated is a real and present danger to ALL - Danedukenuuk Apr 22, 11:29
      - ignorance can make anyone pretty dangerous. -- nm - mafic Apr 22, 11:23 3
        
        especially when combined with desperation and a dash of paranoia. -- nm - znufrii Apr 22, 11:24 1
        
        And the notion of protecting one's own and to hell with everyone else -- nm - con_carne Apr 22, 11:29
        
        especially ignorance about something as important as the safety of one's children -- nm - Roger More Apr 22, 11:24
      - If they aren't getting their kids vaccinated, they're putting large swaths of the population at risk. That's very dangerous. -- nm - Don Homer Apr 22, 11:20
      - Any group of people can be dangerous given the appropriate circumstances. -- nm - znufrii Apr 22, 11:19
      - it's already lead to measles outbreaks, which have caused deaths. - Reagen Apr 22, 11:17 7
        
        I just realized the dissociation here. There is an assumption that people wondering about autism/vaccines also believe to avoid all vaccines. - David Apr 22, 11:37 5
        
        The assumption is there because that's been the most visible aspect of the public discourse on the topic. - znufrii Apr 22, 11:43
        
        In my experience it's the predominant view. - Reagen Apr 22, 11:41 2
        
        For the sake of future volcanic eruptions like this, it's probably best if we all separate the two in the future. - David Apr 22, 11:44
        
        yes -- nm - Don Homer Apr 22, 11:42
        
        ok, first please let me apologize for my statement above. I was saying it too strongly. second, I would like to hear - loosilu Apr 22, 11:40
        
        We are having an outbreak right now in DC. One guy got a lot of kids sick. No daycares were involved. -- nm - loosilu Apr 22, 11:18
  - that IM is extreme. There are a lot of peopple just looking for an answer. - Reagen Apr 22, 11:13 3
    - I understand that completely. I take issue with claims that the studies are bad. They're not. -- nm - loosilu Apr 22, 11:14
    - unfortunately there are also people who have decided on the answer, and dismiss out of hand anything that might contradict that. -- nm - znufrii Apr 22, 11:14 1
      - which you just said in your IM -- nm - znufrii Apr 22, 11:14
  - Yeah, I totally have an agenda. That's it. -- nm - Stephen Apr 22, 11:13 4
    - I think she means the people that you are basing your opinion on, not you. -- nm - mara Apr 22, 11:21 1
      - which, honestly, who doesn't have an agenda? - znufrii Apr 22, 11:26
    - if I may step in, this is a "loosi talking about people higher up the chain that gets misinterpreted as her talking about everyone" thing. - Reagen Apr 22, 11:14 1
      - yes, very much so. thank you. -- nm - loosilu Apr 22, 11:17
and as for other studies being limited, one was conducted on 500,000 children. -- (link) - loosilu Apr 22, 11:09

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