ST Alpha - "Okay, but step back a second. " (Reading a Post)

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In response to "NWBR: yes, but that's not my point. Those negatives are not based on actual things" by Reagen

Okay, but step back a second.

Posted by Name Withheld by Request (aka BlueKopo) May 9 '17, 07:36

Ignore whether it was fair or not. Reasonable people can disagree. Circumstances are what they are.

But just focus on the factor itself. A candidate with a built-in 40%+ negative rating would never be a good candidate for President. (Approaching 50% by January 2015.)

Now add on her ineffective 2008 campaign strategy and execution and just on the objective history (2008 outcomes) and data (unfair or not, her negative ratings were consistent), we can confidently say she wasn't a terribly strong candidate to put forward.

Responses:

But it's further to the point that America is not ready. -- nm - Reagen May 9, 07:41 46
- Yeah,there's been dozens of female governors over the years in over half the States, including several conservative states. I don't buy this. -- nm - Name Withheld by Request May 9, 07:48 9
  - Governor is a world away from President. -- nm - Reagen May 9, 07:55 8
    - The Venn disagram of people who will support a woman for Governor and not President has very little shade in that area. -- nm - Name Withheld by Request May 9, 07:59 7
      - My read of the American electorate is that they regard the national races verrrry differently from the state level ones. - Reagen May 9, 08:04 6
        
        That's fair, but I still don't think a woman is unelectable for President. Hell, for all of her electoral flaws, Hillary damned near pulled it off. - Name Withheld by Request May 9, 08:08 5
        
        I think it points out how absurdly qualified a woman candidate can be and be rejected. -- nm - Reagen May 9, 08:13 4
        
        Timing was a factor, too. GamerGate's political influence is an insidious factor in all this. -- nm - David May 9, 08:31
        
        Other factors matter than just CV. That's why a Muclair gets his ass handed to him by a Trudeau. -- nm - Name Withheld by Request May 9, 08:27
        
        In favour of an absurdly unqualified candidate. -- nm - Roger More May 9, 08:17 1
        
        This is the point that's impossible to refute. More than 95% of the people who understand politics (newspapers and politicians) advised against a vote - David May 9, 08:33
- america is ready for a woman president, just not that woman. -- nm - groiny May 9, 07:44 35
  - I believe this - but I am continual shocked at what America does -- nm - Epiphany May 9, 07:49
  - This is the statement made when there is no other argument about why she wasn't elected. if she can't win, no woman can right now. None. -- nm - MDH May 9, 07:46 14
    - You're barely old enough to remember a world where Hillary Clinton wasn't a huge opponent of the Right. -- nm - Will Hunting May 9, 07:50 12
      - You're mistaking a singular response for a unique one. -- nm* - znufrii, definitely not 40 May 9, 07:56 4
        
        Is there a level of bigotry to HIllary, of course. She was 80k away from winning. - Will Hunting May 9, 08:03 3
        
        Klobuchar isn't going to get a third of the votes Hillary got, and Gillibrand (while I like her) is a white woman from New York, she has no chance. -- nm - MDH May 9, 08:07 2
        
        Respectfully, talking in absolutes like "no chance" doesn't help anything. - David May 9, 08:38
        
        And neither of them have the national profile yet that make them ready targets. As soon as they aspire to it though, we'll see. -- nm - znufrii, definitely not 40 May 9, 08:09
      - I am old enough, but remind me, in your view, why she became an enemy of the Right? -- nm - ty97 May 9, 07:53 6
        
        Becuase in 1992, America was a fair bit different -- - Will Hunting May 9, 07:58 5
        
        One could also argue that making her point for the failed 90's Health Plan went a long way as well. It was a... - Name Withheld by Request May 9, 08:01 4
        
        But don't both your and Will's points support MDH to an extent - ty97 May 9, 08:17 2
        
        It's an aggregate. She made the role of First Lady political for the first time in 50 years when she took on health care in 1993. - Name Withheld by Request May 9, 08:25 1
        
        I think most people have forgotten that. It's the 25 years of mud-slinging, not one failed policy initiative. - Roger More May 9, 08:46
        
        That falls under the wanting more comment I have. -- nm - Will Hunting May 9, 08:05
    - *shrug* -- nm - groiny May 9, 07:48
  - I honestly don't know if America is ready for a woman president or not (really no clue) but what's to stop the next woman candidate from being 'that - ty97 May 9, 07:46
  - "And no, not that one either..." -- nm - znufrii, definitely not 40 May 9, 07:46 17
    - Instead of a pithy quote, why not you actually argue on why this is wrong - Will Hunting May 9, 07:47 15
      - [deleted] 12
        
        had the roles been reversed, and Hillary was a president, and Bill was running for President years later - groiny May 9, 07:58 10
        
        [deleted] 9
        
        and yet, I managed to vote for her despite all that. - groiny May 9, 08:04 8
        
        Thank you for that. - David May 9, 08:40 1
        
        alot of good it did. -- nm - groiny May 9, 08:42
        
        [deleted] 5
        
        it is a combination of all of the above, in reality. - groiny May 9, 08:12 4
        
        This is a good post. -- nm - David May 9, 08:43
        
        She lost by 0.8% in WI, 0.2% in MI, and 0.7% in PA. Argument could be made that there were enough people who wouldn't vote for a woman - ty97 May 9, 08:20 2
        
        There would have been a block of voters casting HRC ballots *because* she was a woman. Anyone seen any articles or data figuring out the difference? -- nm - Name Withheld by Request May 9, 08:29 1
        
        I would have thought this in advance. I'm not convinced in hindsight to be honest. (but no, seen no analysis) -- nm* - ty97 May 9, 08:42
        
        Your IM is actually the subject of her upcoming memoir. She is going to be unfiltered about the treatment she received. -- nm - MDH May 9, 07:56
      - I'll stick with the pithy quote, if it's all the same to you. I think it illustrates my point perfectly. -- nm - znufrii, definitely not 40 May 9, 07:50 1
        
        Oh, it illustrates a lot of points perfectly. -- nm - Will Hunting May 9, 07:51
    - Yup. -- nm - MDH May 9, 07:47

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Okay, but step back a second.

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