ST Alpha - "What is the harm in a relatively safe and comfortable country if somebody chooses not to engage? -- nm" (Reading a Post)

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In response to "My concern is not legitimacy, it's engagement. -- nm" by Reagen

What is the harm in a relatively safe and comfortable country if somebody chooses not to engage? -- nm

Posted by Name Withheld by Request (aka BlueKopo) Jun 8 '18, 08:41

(No message)

Responses:

Safety and comfort require upkeep. -- nm - Beryllium Jun 8, 08:45 11
- (I mean, in some ways conservatives are loudly and proudly opposed to safety ... and the safety they do support often results in discomfort for some) -- nm - Beryllium Jun 8, 08:47
- ^ -- nm - Reagen Jun 8, 08:47 9
  - Sure. And 6 in 10 Ontarians participated in that yesterday which is why the handwringing is a little to a lot moot. -- nm - Name Withheld by Request Jun 8, 08:59 8
    - And the more that participate the better, both in the short term and in the long term for an informed public. - Reagen Jun 8, 09:10 7
      - But if a citizen is actively choosing to stay uninformed and disengaged, I don't see how their marginal involvement serves some greater good. -- nm - Name Withheld by Request Jun 8, 09:23 6
        
        Marginally, no one's vote matters. Collectively, it matters a lot. - Reagen Jun 8, 09:26 5
        
        You're reasonable enough to know that you aren't going to motivate individuals to pay attention if they don't want to, so what would you propose... - Name Withheld by Request Jun 8, 09:33 4
        
        I've never said we're below any line of legitimacy, only that it becomes *more* legitimate the more people participate. - Reagen Jun 8, 09:38 3
        
        I've had voter contact with thousands and that's what has led me to this position. I don't think the system has any greater moral authority with... - Name Withheld by Request Jun 8, 09:48 2
        
        One flows from the other. In my ideal world, they're not low information voters. - Reagen Jun 8, 09:51 1
        
        My response below gets to this but it's okay for someone not to be civically-engaged. - Name Withheld by Request Jun 8, 09:53
You get someone like Ford or Trump in office. -- nm - TWuG Jun 8, 08:42 19
- i mean.... -- nm - Andie Jun 8, 08:43 18
  - Except that's the nature of our system and our country, it really doesn't matter in the grand aggregate who is elected. If someone goes... - Name Withheld by Request Jun 8, 08:58 17
    - But with a majority, there isn't an early opportunity. Cuts to things like hospitals and transit have immediate effects. -- nm - Andie Jun 8, 09:01 16
      - Context is key though. Changes (including cuts) would occur, but they wouldn't be drastically out of scope either. For the vast majority of the.... - Name Withheld by Request Jun 8, 09:04
      - and, he has shown he has no qualms about selling off green lands, and removing rent control. Those aren't small things. -- nm - Andie Jun 8, 09:02 14
        
        No, but they are valid areas of public policy discussion. It's folly to assume that there is only one "correct" answer on them. - Name Withheld by Request Jun 8, 09:05 13
        
        I didn't say there was one correct answer, I'm saying that you can't say 'it won't change much.' -- nm* - Andie Jun 8, 09:08 12
        
        [deleted]
        
        In the grand scheme of provincial government operations, it won't. Context and scope really matters here. - Name Withheld by Request Jun 8, 09:10 10
        
        Sure, 20 years from now this may seem like no big deal. To a renter who suddenly can't afford to live in Toronto, or Ottawa, that isn't going to help -- nm - Andie Jun 8, 09:13 9
        
        When we talk about increasing turnout, it isn't about that individual though. We're talking society as a whole. - Name Withheld by Request Jun 8, 09:27 8
        
        I am trying to parse that last sentence... - Andie Jun 8, 09:32 7
        
        I think you got it and explained here. I didn't think you did, but just wanted to clarify. - Name Withheld by Request Jun 8, 09:44 6
        
        You call it "content" , I call it "apathy" and "disillusionment". -- nm - Reagen Jun 8, 09:46 5
        
        If you want to frame it that way, you can, however the true number of "I'm not inspired" voters is but a fraction of a fraction. - Name Withheld by Request Jun 8, 09:52 4
        
        Who said force? -- nm - Reagen Jun 8, 09:58 3
        
        Use incentives then. (Though honestly, if apathy is the primary cause of non-voting, I just don't know how you raise it to a significantly higher... - Name Withheld by Request Jun 8, 10:01 2
        
        I'd like to see at least eight in ten. -- nm - Reagen Jun 8, 10:03 1
        
        I'm sure I can find concerned articles from the 50's and 60's when turnout first "dropped" to 80%. - Name Withheld by Request Jun 8, 10:10

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