ST Alpha - "Your perspective is reversed. Hate crimes are meant to terrorize and control all people in a class, not just those directly affected." (Reading a Post)

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In response to "Why should these murderers get harsher sentences than any other? Murder is murder, IMO." by TWuG

Your perspective is reversed. Hate crimes are meant to terrorize and control all people in a class, not just those directly affected.

Posted by not2fast Jun 17 '09, 10:54

In cases of murder, it may be used to lengthen a sentence or make parole more difficult. In death penalty cases, it may be just part of the justification for such extreme measures.

Responses:

No, my perspective is just fine. I don't like the "thought crime" aspect of hate crimes laws. -- nm - TWuG Jun 17, 10:58 28
- That is because you are looking at it from the criminal's perspective, not the victims'. -- nm - not2fast Jun 17, 11:05 4
  - *Every* victim is pissed at being a victim. I'm worried about criminalizing thought. It's not right. -- nm - TWuG Jun 17, 11:08 3
    - [deleted] 2
      - Yes, you are. You don't like the thoughts behind the crime so you punish it more severly -- nm - TWuG Jun 17, 11:14 1
        
        [deleted]
- How else do you propose to disincentivize unhelpful and entrenched ways of thinking? -- nm - znufrii Jun 17, 10:59 22
  - Punish the shit out of the behavior that is the crime, ie assault/murder/etc - Will Hunting Jun 17, 11:03 2
    - but by only punishing the behahior, you are doing nothing to address its cause. -- nm - znufrii Jun 17, 11:05 1
      - No, you're simplifying the case and not getting into a gray area. - Will Hunting Jun 17, 11:11
  - you really think that harsher sentencing is a disincentive for this? can you show us any evidence to support that? -- nm - Guy Jun 17, 11:03 1
    - No, I can't. I'm just thinking out loud here, really. -- nm - znufrii Jun 17, 11:04
  - The rub is who gets to say what's unhelpful/bad thought? -- nm - con_carne Jun 17, 11:00 3
    - *Reconsiders* Could we include support for the Desginated Hitter rule? -- nm - Ender Jun 17, 11:04 2
      - read that as "Designated Hitler" -- nm - Dano Jun 17, 11:07 1
        
        Same thing, they're both evil. -- nm - Ender Jun 17, 11:08
  - Education and population turnover. -- nm - Ender Jun 17, 11:00 12
    - In the long run, yes. But that can take a while. -- nm - znufrii Jun 17, 11:03 4
      - But then the nebulous possiblity of 10 more years in prison isn't exactly an immediate disincentive to those thoughts either. -- nm - Ender Jun 17, 11:07 3
        
        but if nothing else, it removes the perpetrator from society so he is less able to pass along the worldview that spawned the action. -- nm - znufrii Jun 17, 11:08 2
        
        Ah, so now we're locking away the people with the improper thoughts. - Dr.Vermin Jun 17, 11:12 1
        
        Oh, believe me, if I wanted to lock away people with improper thoughts, there wouldn't be enough room in the entire state of alaska for them. - znufrii Jun 17, 11:14
    - Agreed. Many murders are motivated by hate, but only certain groups of people get addition "protection" from hate crimes laws. - TWuG Jun 17, 11:02 6
      - [deleted] 5
        
        So white on white murder isn't as bad as white on black murder or black on white murder? Is black on black murder more tolerable than white on black - TWuG Jun 17, 11:12 4
        
        [deleted] 3
        
        Ah, so the "thought" behind the "crime" is what drives the extra punishment! "Thought crime"! -- nm - TWuG Jun 17, 11:17
        
        I'll take being shot becuase I'm black over becuase I was just standing there. - Will Hunting Jun 17, 11:17 1
        
        [deleted]

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Your perspective is reversed. Hate crimes are meant to terrorize and control all people in a class, not just those directly affected.

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