ST Alpha - "No, my perspective is just fine. I don't like the "thought crime" aspect of hate crimes laws. -- nm" (Reading a Post)

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In response to "Your perspective is reversed. Hate crimes are meant to terrorize and control all people in a class, not just those directly affected." by not2fast

No, my perspective is just fine. I don't like the "thought crime" aspect of hate crimes laws. -- nm

Posted by TWuG Jun 17 '09, 10:58

(No message)

Responses:

That is because you are looking at it from the criminal's perspective, not the victims'. -- nm - not2fast Jun 17, 11:05 4
- *Every* victim is pissed at being a victim. I'm worried about criminalizing thought. It's not right. -- nm - TWuG Jun 17, 11:08 3
  - [deleted] 2
    - Yes, you are. You don't like the thoughts behind the crime so you punish it more severly -- nm - TWuG Jun 17, 11:14 1
      - [deleted]
How else do you propose to disincentivize unhelpful and entrenched ways of thinking? -- nm - znufrii Jun 17, 10:59 22
- Punish the shit out of the behavior that is the crime, ie assault/murder/etc - Will Hunting Jun 17, 11:03 2
  - but by only punishing the behahior, you are doing nothing to address its cause. -- nm - znufrii Jun 17, 11:05 1
    - No, you're simplifying the case and not getting into a gray area. - Will Hunting Jun 17, 11:11
- you really think that harsher sentencing is a disincentive for this? can you show us any evidence to support that? -- nm - Guy Jun 17, 11:03 1
  - No, I can't. I'm just thinking out loud here, really. -- nm - znufrii Jun 17, 11:04
- The rub is who gets to say what's unhelpful/bad thought? -- nm - con_carne Jun 17, 11:00 3
  - *Reconsiders* Could we include support for the Desginated Hitter rule? -- nm - Ender Jun 17, 11:04 2
    - read that as "Designated Hitler" -- nm - Dano Jun 17, 11:07 1
      - Same thing, they're both evil. -- nm - Ender Jun 17, 11:08
- Education and population turnover. -- nm - Ender Jun 17, 11:00 12
  - In the long run, yes. But that can take a while. -- nm - znufrii Jun 17, 11:03 4
    - But then the nebulous possiblity of 10 more years in prison isn't exactly an immediate disincentive to those thoughts either. -- nm - Ender Jun 17, 11:07 3
      - but if nothing else, it removes the perpetrator from society so he is less able to pass along the worldview that spawned the action. -- nm - znufrii Jun 17, 11:08 2
        
        Ah, so now we're locking away the people with the improper thoughts. - Dr.Vermin Jun 17, 11:12 1
        
        Oh, believe me, if I wanted to lock away people with improper thoughts, there wouldn't be enough room in the entire state of alaska for them. - znufrii Jun 17, 11:14
  - Agreed. Many murders are motivated by hate, but only certain groups of people get addition "protection" from hate crimes laws. - TWuG Jun 17, 11:02 6
    - [deleted] 5
      - So white on white murder isn't as bad as white on black murder or black on white murder? Is black on black murder more tolerable than white on black - TWuG Jun 17, 11:12 4
        
        [deleted] 3
        
        Ah, so the "thought" behind the "crime" is what drives the extra punishment! "Thought crime"! -- nm - TWuG Jun 17, 11:17
        
        I'll take being shot becuase I'm black over becuase I was just standing there. - Will Hunting Jun 17, 11:17 1
        
        [deleted]

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