ST Alpha - "It's punishing the thoughts of people not the crimes they commit. I don't care that the Holocaust Museum shooter was motivated by hate for Jews" (Reading a Post)

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In response to "Even if it had not practical effect on deterring crime, hate crime legislation is a useful expression of our country's values. -- nm" by znufrii

It's punishing the thoughts of people not the crimes they commit. I don't care that the Holocaust Museum shooter was motivated by hate for Jews

Posted by TWuG Jun 17 '09, 11:25

at least insofar as punishing him for killing the guard is concerned.

He took a life. He intended to take a life. He probably isn't going to successfully argue diminished capacity, so he'll get convicted.

To say "you hate Jews so we're attaching 20 years to your sentence" is stupid. Punish the crime, not the thought behind it.

Responses:

I do care, because of what it says about our country that there are still people with those ideas out there. - znufrii Jun 17, 11:30 12
- If a non-bigot murders a bigot, it's still murder. I don't like ranking one murder against another. - ty97 Jun 17, 11:37 2
  - [deleted]
  - Exactly. (nm) - musubi Jun 17, 11:40
- as wrong as I believe they are, they still have that right. once you tack on an additional punishment because of "hate", the hate becomes a crime. - dogbert183 Jun 17, 11:34
- So you are in favor of criminalizing thought? Why not make all hatred of Jews or gays or African-Americans illegal? Then they can't hold those - TWuG Jun 17, 11:33 7
  - because that's just a silly concept entirely. - znufrii Jun 17, 11:39 6
    - Or we could really just punish the guilty man to the fullest extents of our laws, protect society and not make the Jews/blacks/muslims/gays a protecte - Will Hunting Jun 17, 11:41 5
      - what about hate crime laws protecting straw men? - znufrii Jun 17, 11:46 2
        
        What straw man? You want laws that are equal...you said so above. Yet you're arguing for laws that treat citizens unequally. - Will Hunting Jun 17, 11:48 1
        
        the idea that your arguing against, that hate crime laws exist to protect only certain classes of people, is entirely false. -- nm - znufrii Jun 17, 11:53
      - [deleted] 1
        
        Increase the penalties in general for those crimes. - Will Hunting Jun 17, 11:44
But, on the other hand, if someone spraypaints "death to all juice" on your juice stand, don't you want them to get more than a ticket? -- nm - Beryllium Jun 17, 11:27 3
- If they sprayed "Man, I really really love juice", I'd want them ticketed just as harshly! -- nm - Dr.Vermin Jun 17, 11:30 2
  - what if they did it really prettily and it helped boost sales? -- nm - Beryllium Jun 17, 11:32 1
    - I... if... dammit! - Dr.Vermin Jun 17, 11:33

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It's punishing the thoughts of people not the crimes they commit. I don't care that the Holocaust Museum shooter was motivated by hate for Jews

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