ST Alpha - "Isn't freedom of though, including unpopular, ugly thought a pretty important value in our country? (nm)" (Reading a Post)

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In response to "Even if it had not practical effect on deterring crime, hate crime legislation is a useful expression of our country's values. -- nm" by znufrii

Isn't freedom of though, including unpopular, ugly thought a pretty important value in our country? (nm)

Posted by musubi Jun 17 '09, 11:28

I sure thought it was.

Responses:

[deleted] 30
- Nobody's saying that the violence based on it shouldn't be punished. -- nm - Ender Jun 17, 11:38
- It's not side tracking the discussion. It's the main point of the discussion. Punish the act, not the reason behind it. - musubi Jun 17, 11:35 19
  - [deleted] 18
    - Premeditation makes a crime a different act, thus the different crimes. - musubi Jun 17, 11:39 17
      - [deleted] 16
        
        If I bring a knife to a guy to cut him, it's a differnt act than finding a knife in the middle of a fight and cutting him. Premeditation is an act. - musubi Jun 17, 11:44 4
        
        [deleted] 3
        
        So, your answer is punish him more because he hated her? - musubi Jun 17, 11:50 1
        
        [deleted]
        
        give him an extra 20 years because he hated her -- nm - dogbert183 Jun 17, 11:49
        
        Very good. - Dr.Vermin Jun 17, 11:43 10
        
        [deleted] 9
        
        No. - Dr.Vermin Jun 17, 11:48 8
        
        [deleted] 4
        
        when he decided to kill her -- nm - dogbert183 Jun 17, 11:51
        
        "decides to kill her." See how 'decide' is a verb? -- nm - Dr.Vermin Jun 17, 11:51 2
        
        [deleted] 1
        
        You asked where the act was in premeditation. - Dr.Vermin Jun 17, 11:56
        
        Planning may require a plan, but premeditation doesn't. -- nm - mara Jun 17, 11:49 2
        
        I believe it does. - Dr.Vermin Jun 17, 11:50 1
        
        [deleted]
- The crime is : Destruction of property, assualt, murder and terrorism. Not hated of Jews or Americans. -- nm - TWuG Jun 17, 11:34 8
  - the argument I'd make is that hate crimes are terrorism. the design is to affect more than just the person the crime is perpetrated on. if terrorism - mafic Jun 17, 11:37 5
    - That's the best argument I've heard for the legislation so far. Nice. - Dr.Vermin Jun 17, 11:39 2
      - Are you seriously saying you'd never heard that argument before, or thought of it yourself? -- nm - mara Jun 17, 11:45 1
        
        Best argument I've seen today, and presented the most concisely. - Dr.Vermin Jun 17, 11:53
    - [deleted] 1
      - Oh good. That's one side I'd want to be on. - musubi Jun 17, 11:42
  - [deleted] 1
    - If you base the punishment on the thoughts then, yes, you are punishing thoughts. -- nm - TWuG Jun 17, 11:39

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Isn't freedom of though, including unpopular, ugly thought a pretty important value in our country? (nm)

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