ST Alpha - "I still don't understand how a cruise is more dangerous for contracting Covid than an airline flight. Help me. -- nm" (Reading a Post)

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In response to "CDC says people should 'avoid cruise travel, regardless of vaccination status' -- (link)" by budice

I still don't understand how a cruise is more dangerous for contracting Covid than an airline flight. Help me. -- nm

Posted by zunk xometimes (aka zunkskunk) Dec 30 '21, 10:21

(No message)

Responses:

Meal services. -- nm - The Allfather Dec 30, 10:36 7
- Covid is airborne. There have been cases of surface infections on ships like rotavirus but as far as I know C19 isn't surface bering. -- nm - zunk xometimes Dec 30, 10:39 6
  - Also, never having been on a cruise, do they exchange air between rooms? - spamlet Dec 30, 10:49 2
    - Yeah, I don't know the answer to this. I'd think not, but the inside (non-balcony) I dunno. -- nm - JaxSean Dec 30, 11:05 1
      - Royal Caribbean says "air change up to 12 times an hour in staterooms, and about 15 changes an hour in large public spaces." - JaxSean Dec 30, 11:09
  - Meal services have demonstrably spread COVID on the Diamond Princess and other cruises. It’s the close quarters and high contact. -- nm - The Allfather Dec 30, 10:45 1
    - Good to know. Not planning a cruise soon but I've been on two and, to me, it's exactly like staying at a resort. Just smaller rooms. 8) -- nm - zunk xometimes Dec 30, 11:17
  - Right. But the dining rooms aren’t exchanging the air with the outside. That leads to longer exposure times. - spamlet Dec 30, 10:44
For starters, there are way more people so the chances of one case is much higher even with precautions. -- nm - Dano Dec 30, 10:30 5
- Maybe I'm looking at things wrong but with current positives at over 10% you're flying with possibly 20 positives. -- nm - zunk xometimes Dec 30, 10:44 4
  - 10% of people who bothered to get tested, which self-selects for people who think they might have been exposed. -- nm - Reagen Dec 30, 10:54
  - over 10% of people taking a test are positive. NYC is estimated to be 2% total population positive -- nm - zeitgeist Dec 30, 10:51 2
    - I was being conservative. Chicago is testing in the teens. -- nm - zunk xometimes Dec 30, 11:19 1
      - Seattle was 13% -- nm - zeitgeist Dec 30, 11:27
Longer time exposure. -- nm - spamlet Dec 30, 10:30 29
- Mass gathering events on the ship - shows, dancing, singing, shopping. -- nm - Dark Callisto Dec 30, 11:06 5
  - That also describes the big Las Vegas resorts. *We* know they can be covid factories but I don't see the CDC saying that. -- nm - zunk xometimes Dec 30, 11:27 4
    - Las Vegas casinos are infectious death traps, zunk -- nm - decline Dec 30, 11:29 2
      - Yes but "first class germ factories ". -- nm - zunk xometimes Dec 30, 11:35
      - heh -- nm - JaxSean Dec 30, 11:32
    - Yeah - but you can leave a Las Vegas resort. You're stuck on these ships. -- nm - Turd Ferguson Dec 30, 11:28
- Yeah, but all cruises are currently 100% vaccinated and tested within 48 hours of departure. Flights you have no requirements. -- nm - JaxSean Dec 30, 10:36 22
  - They're high 90s, not 100%. Right? -- nm - Pocket Jones Dec 30, 11:07 6
    - You can't board the ship right now unless you have proof of vaccination. Whether people have gotten away with forgeries is a different thing. -- nm - David Dec 30, 11:10 5
      - Forgeries must be pretty wide spread if something like 30% of cruise ships have outbreaks right now -- nm - decline Dec 30, 11:21 3
        
        Vaccination doesn't stop you from getting COVID. It just reduces the chances of severe symptoms/illness. -- nm - David Dec 30, 11:37 1
        
        Especially with Omicron. It seems to be evading the vaccination and then the second level of our immune system kicks in once infected. - spamlet Dec 30, 11:39
        
        This CDC page shows all the ships and their "Color Status." None are above the threshold, though a lot are at the 1% level (so 3 in 3000). -- (link) - JaxSean Dec 30, 11:30
      - this, plus a negative test prior to boarding. (I said "all," but I really meant the big names; NCL, RC, Carnival, etc.) -- nm - JaxSean Dec 30, 11:13
  - Cruises are infectious death traps, JaxSean -- nm - decline Dec 30, 10:54 1
    - "Which part of "Third class is a germ factory" did you not understand??" -- nm - Max Dec 30, 10:56
  - Except the point of a cruise is generally go to places where you get off and mingle with lots of people and then get back on the ship with all the - oblique Dec 30, 10:52 1
    - If your cruise is going downhill very quickly, you've hitched a ride on a crap chute. -- nm - Max Dec 30, 10:54
  - WA state is investigating some 30 doctors for handing out exemptions without even asking for medical histories/exams, one sold thousands - zeitgeist Dec 30, 10:45
  - "The cabin will now be depressurized to encourage all passengers to wear oxygen masks. Remember: If a man can't breathe, he can't flight." -- nm - Cobra Kai Airlines Dec 30, 10:45
  - Depends where you are. We had to be fully vaxxed to depart. Negative test within 72 hrs of return flight. Also, got popped for a random arrival test - VMan Dec 30, 10:44
  - Right. And at least 50% of a cruise day is outdoors. I'm not saying cruise ships are "safer", I'm trying to understand why they are considered more da - zunk xometimes Dec 30, 10:41 1
    - My guess is because of more tracking, so more data for the CDC. There's no contact tracing for airlines (to my knowledge). -- nm - JaxSean Dec 30, 10:47
  - But the air is exchanged so quickly you don’t have the exposure time unless the person is literally next to you coughing on you. -- nm - spamlet Dec 30, 10:40 5
    - ...like on a flight? On a cruise, I'm rarely or not near anyone. - JaxSean Dec 30, 10:45 4
      - The recommendation for air circulation that significantly reduces risk is air exchange 5-6 times per hour. Airplanes are apparently exchanging air 20 - pmb Dec 30, 10:53 2
        
        I think this answers my original question. Air exchange in indoor settings is important. It just opens up a can of worms on other indoor settings with - zunk xometimes Dec 30, 11:41
        
        yeah, every 3 minutes is what they said on the flight today. -- nm - Reagen Dec 30, 10:54
      - Yes on a flight. -- nm - spamlet Dec 30, 10:50

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