ST Alpha - "I'm still stuck on the coach taking the team to church for any reason. -- nm" (Reading a Post)

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In response to "Here's one story indicating that Baptising a child under 18 without parental consent may in fact violate the law. -- (link)" by TWuG

I'm still stuck on the coach taking the team to church for any reason. -- nm

Posted by loosilu (aka loosilu2) Sep 9 '09, 07:13

(No message)

Responses:

Off school hours using non-school resources? If that's the case, how does it matter where the coach asks the kids to go for any kind of teambuilding? - oblique Sep 9, 07:15 49
- A coach taking his team to a church isn't the same as a trip to Applebee's since there's no separation of - Will Hunting Sep 9, 07:23
- The superintendent attended, they used a school bus, they took the kids to another county - to the coach's church. -- nm - CovingtonCat Sep 9, 07:22 21
  - ie, its was a school function. -- nm - tRuMaN Sep 9, 07:22
  - Like I said, assuming no school funding/involvement other than the fact that they're on the same team. If there were school resources used, I have an - oblique Sep 9, 07:22 19
    - What about permission? The pastor says he requires minors to have permission. The superintendent didn't think it was necessary for a 16 year old. -- nm - CovingtonCat Sep 9, 07:25 14
      - Again, if that's the case. Big problem. And I put the blame for that squarely on the adults involved (pastor, coach, superintendent) - oblique Sep 9, 07:29 13
        
        That IS the case. There was NO permission asked for or received. Doesn't matter if the kid lied. - CovingtonCat Sep 9, 07:31 11
        
        (Reading another article, the baptism's weren't actually part of the event schedule. It was a spur of the moment thing in the service.) -- nm - Ender Sep 9, 07:34 3
        
        Then is was the superintendent's responsibility to prevent it from happening. -- nm - CovingtonCat Sep 9, 07:40 2
        
        (She apparently wasn't actually there with the group, she was there on her own.) -- nm - Ender Sep 9, 07:47 1
        
        So she just showed up out of the blue? Sorry, that doesn't wash. - CovingtonCat Sep 9, 07:50
        
        I understand. That wasn't exactly my question though. -- nm - oblique Sep 9, 07:32 6
        
        just as a thought exercise, what if it was a Catholic baptism? does that change your view? -- nm - loosilu Sep 9, 07:33 5
        
        They don't even have to be immersed. I just assume priests already walk around surreptitiously sprinkling kids. -- nm - Ender Sep 9, 07:39 2
        
        [deleted]
        
        actually they won't do it for anyone over the age of (don't know exactly) - loosilu Sep 9, 07:42
        
        No. I fully understand that in this instance, the adults blurred too many lines, didn't get adequate permission - oblique Sep 9, 07:37 1
        
        don't you think the coach, in his authority position, - loosilu Sep 9, 07:40
        
        you never rely on kids to say they told their parents. ever. -- nm - loosilu Sep 9, 07:30
    - school bus is not school resources? -- nm - loosilu Sep 9, 07:23 3
      - The school wasn't paying for that. They paid their own gas and had a volunteer driver. -- nm - Ender Sep 9, 07:24 1
        
        who would have paid if they had an accident? -- nm - loosilu Sep 9, 07:25
      - and school staff? -- nm - tRuMaN Sep 9, 07:24
- Dude...it's the high school football team...that's a pretty solid relationship to the school I think. -- nm - Jim Sep 9, 07:20
- The coach is an agaent of the State by virtue of being coach. ANY activity or contact he has with students is a school activity. -- nm - TWuG Sep 9, 07:17 18
  - I don't believe that. If he wanted to get the team together and have pizza on his dime, how is that attached to the school in any way? -- nm - oblique Sep 9, 07:20 17
    - That'd be so many violations, they'd automatically jump to joining the SouthEast Conference. -- nm - NCAA Sep 9, 07:31
    - So what Mary Kay Letourneau did was OK because it was off school grounds & not on school time? -- nm - CovingtonCat Sep 9, 07:30 8
      - Funny story, they got married, raised their kids, and lived happily ever after. -- nm - Qale Sep 9, 07:34 2
        
        ...so far -- nm - Beaker Sep 9, 07:44 1
        
        "... so far" could be said about anyone. -- nm - Qale Sep 9, 07:47
      - Please don't try compare sexual abuse of a child to attending a church -- nm - oblique Sep 9, 07:31 1
        
        I think foisting religion on a child when it's not accepted by the parents to be a form of abuse. - CovingtonCat Sep 9, 07:39
      - Pretty sure there are laws against statutory rape. -- nm - Ender Sep 9, 07:31 2
        
        You're right. Should've found a better example where school employees are still representatives of the school whenever students are involved, no matt - CovingtonCat Sep 9, 07:35
        
        not in every state for minor boys.l -- nm - loosilu Sep 9, 07:32
    - He is the coach. That's his relationship to the kids. His duty as coach means he doesn't get to have a separate personal relationship with the kids - TWuG Sep 9, 07:25 1
      - I don't think any contact between coach and student off school hours/property becomes a school responsibility - oblique Sep 9, 07:31
    - ok, what if he took the team to a strip club on his dime? is that ok? -- nm - loosilu Sep 9, 07:21 3
      - If he takes them to a strip club he's going to need a lot more than a dime. At the very least some singles. -- nm - Ender Sep 9, 07:22
      - You can't legally take kids to a strip club -- nm - oblique Sep 9, 07:22 1
        
        you can't legally baptise kids without permission either. -- nm - loosilu Sep 9, 07:23
    - that's not unconstitutional. -- nm - loosilu Sep 9, 07:20
- "team" exists only because of the school. the coach is their main authority figure, employed by the school. He abused his authority. -- nm - loosilu Sep 9, 07:17 5
  - and do you really expect high school students to separate the coach's authority when it's off school hours? Practice - loosilu Sep 9, 07:18 4
    - Practice is generally on school property and part of a school event and the coach is probably paid for that time, not the same -- nm - oblique Sep 9, 07:19 3
      - and you expect students to understand that during off hours he has no authority? -- nm - loosilu Sep 9, 07:19 2
        
        When exactly are "off hours" when you're a coach or a teacher? - BB Sep 9, 07:24 1
        
        yeah, I agree strongly. the coach expects players to follow rules off hours. -- nm - loosilu Sep 9, 07:26
"But everyone loves Jesus!" -- nm - lileve Sep 9, 07:14 1
- stay away from my soul! -- nm - loosilu Sep 9, 07:15

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