ST Alpha - "Off school hours using non-school resources? If that's the case, how does it matter where the coach asks the kids to go for any kind of teambuilding?" (Reading a Post)

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In response to "I'm still stuck on the coach taking the team to church for any reason. -- nm" by loosilu

Off school hours using non-school resources? If that's the case, how does it matter where the coach asks the kids to go for any kind of teambuilding?

Posted by oblique (aka kkuphal) Sep 9 '09, 07:15

I don't know if that's entirely the case, but assuming that there is no relation to the school other than the fact that all the people involved are on the same team, how is that an issue?

Responses:

A coach taking his team to a church isn't the same as a trip to Applebee's since there's no separation of - Will Hunting Sep 9, 07:23
The superintendent attended, they used a school bus, they took the kids to another county - to the coach's church. -- nm - CovingtonCat Sep 9, 07:22 21
- ie, its was a school function. -- nm - tRuMaN Sep 9, 07:22
- Like I said, assuming no school funding/involvement other than the fact that they're on the same team. If there were school resources used, I have an - oblique Sep 9, 07:22 19
  - What about permission? The pastor says he requires minors to have permission. The superintendent didn't think it was necessary for a 16 year old. -- nm - CovingtonCat Sep 9, 07:25 14
    - Again, if that's the case. Big problem. And I put the blame for that squarely on the adults involved (pastor, coach, superintendent) - oblique Sep 9, 07:29 13
      - That IS the case. There was NO permission asked for or received. Doesn't matter if the kid lied. - CovingtonCat Sep 9, 07:31 11
        
        (Reading another article, the baptism's weren't actually part of the event schedule. It was a spur of the moment thing in the service.) -- nm - Ender Sep 9, 07:34 3
        
        Then is was the superintendent's responsibility to prevent it from happening. -- nm - CovingtonCat Sep 9, 07:40 2
        
        (She apparently wasn't actually there with the group, she was there on her own.) -- nm - Ender Sep 9, 07:47 1
        
        So she just showed up out of the blue? Sorry, that doesn't wash. - CovingtonCat Sep 9, 07:50
        
        I understand. That wasn't exactly my question though. -- nm - oblique Sep 9, 07:32 6
        
        just as a thought exercise, what if it was a Catholic baptism? does that change your view? -- nm - loosilu Sep 9, 07:33 5
        
        They don't even have to be immersed. I just assume priests already walk around surreptitiously sprinkling kids. -- nm - Ender Sep 9, 07:39 2
        
        [deleted]
        
        actually they won't do it for anyone over the age of (don't know exactly) - loosilu Sep 9, 07:42
        
        No. I fully understand that in this instance, the adults blurred too many lines, didn't get adequate permission - oblique Sep 9, 07:37 1
        
        don't you think the coach, in his authority position, - loosilu Sep 9, 07:40
      - you never rely on kids to say they told their parents. ever. -- nm - loosilu Sep 9, 07:30
  - school bus is not school resources? -- nm - loosilu Sep 9, 07:23 3
    - The school wasn't paying for that. They paid their own gas and had a volunteer driver. -- nm - Ender Sep 9, 07:24 1
      - who would have paid if they had an accident? -- nm - loosilu Sep 9, 07:25
    - and school staff? -- nm - tRuMaN Sep 9, 07:24
Dude...it's the high school football team...that's a pretty solid relationship to the school I think. -- nm - Jim Sep 9, 07:20
The coach is an agaent of the State by virtue of being coach. ANY activity or contact he has with students is a school activity. -- nm - TWuG Sep 9, 07:17 18
- I don't believe that. If he wanted to get the team together and have pizza on his dime, how is that attached to the school in any way? -- nm - oblique Sep 9, 07:20 17
  - That'd be so many violations, they'd automatically jump to joining the SouthEast Conference. -- nm - NCAA Sep 9, 07:31
  - So what Mary Kay Letourneau did was OK because it was off school grounds & not on school time? -- nm - CovingtonCat Sep 9, 07:30 8
    - Funny story, they got married, raised their kids, and lived happily ever after. -- nm - Qale Sep 9, 07:34 2
      - ...so far -- nm - Beaker Sep 9, 07:44 1
        
        "... so far" could be said about anyone. -- nm - Qale Sep 9, 07:47
    - Please don't try compare sexual abuse of a child to attending a church -- nm - oblique Sep 9, 07:31 1
      - I think foisting religion on a child when it's not accepted by the parents to be a form of abuse. - CovingtonCat Sep 9, 07:39
    - Pretty sure there are laws against statutory rape. -- nm - Ender Sep 9, 07:31 2
      - You're right. Should've found a better example where school employees are still representatives of the school whenever students are involved, no matt - CovingtonCat Sep 9, 07:35
      - not in every state for minor boys.l -- nm - loosilu Sep 9, 07:32
  - He is the coach. That's his relationship to the kids. His duty as coach means he doesn't get to have a separate personal relationship with the kids - TWuG Sep 9, 07:25 1
    - I don't think any contact between coach and student off school hours/property becomes a school responsibility - oblique Sep 9, 07:31
  - ok, what if he took the team to a strip club on his dime? is that ok? -- nm - loosilu Sep 9, 07:21 3
    - If he takes them to a strip club he's going to need a lot more than a dime. At the very least some singles. -- nm - Ender Sep 9, 07:22
    - You can't legally take kids to a strip club -- nm - oblique Sep 9, 07:22 1
      - you can't legally baptise kids without permission either. -- nm - loosilu Sep 9, 07:23
  - that's not unconstitutional. -- nm - loosilu Sep 9, 07:20
"team" exists only because of the school. the coach is their main authority figure, employed by the school. He abused his authority. -- nm - loosilu Sep 9, 07:17 5
- and do you really expect high school students to separate the coach's authority when it's off school hours? Practice - loosilu Sep 9, 07:18 4
  - Practice is generally on school property and part of a school event and the coach is probably paid for that time, not the same -- nm - oblique Sep 9, 07:19 3
    - and you expect students to understand that during off hours he has no authority? -- nm - loosilu Sep 9, 07:19 2
      - When exactly are "off hours" when you're a coach or a teacher? - BB Sep 9, 07:24 1
        
        yeah, I agree strongly. the coach expects players to follow rules off hours. -- nm - loosilu Sep 9, 07:26

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Off school hours using non-school resources? If that's the case, how does it matter where the coach asks the kids to go for any kind of teambuilding?

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