ST Alpha - "I think you are assuming both of these things." (Reading a Post)

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In response to "ty97, if Wal-Mart finds you shoplifting, they turn you over to the authorities...they seek it out." by Will Hunting

I think you are assuming both of these things.

Posted by ty97 Sep 15 '09, 07:15

I don't think we know what controls either organization has in place.

Absolutely, the controls at ACORN seem to be failing, but can we say they simply don't have any? Controls aren't foolproof.

I am not an ACORN defender, but I think we need some more information on the organization overall before we can vilify the whole lot of them.

Responses:

I've worked Wal-Mart. I know they have an active anti-shoplifting program in place. - Will Hunting Sep 15, 07:23 7
- Cool. Now please describe your personal experience with ACORN's control program, so we can compare. -- nm - ty97 Sep 15, 07:24 6
  - I don't work ACORN so I have no clue. Given the structure of the organization though, I'd bet it's tiny. - Will Hunting Sep 15, 07:27 3
    - Not an issue? Have you read what I've posted? - ty97 Sep 15, 07:28 2
      - I believe your comparison is faulty. Shoplifting a tangible product is far far more easy and likely than offering Pimp-Advice -- nm - Will Hunting Sep 15, 07:31 1
        
        Sure, that's why shoplifting happens tens of thousands of times a year that we know of, and pimp-advice occurs once that we know of. -- nm - ty97 Sep 15, 07:33
  - I don't have to have worked or been ripped off by Bernie Madoff to know he is a criminal -- nm - Redmond Dawn Sep 15, 07:26 1
    - When this posts makes sense on Earth, I'll repsond to it. -- nm - ty97 Sep 15, 07:27
I am fairly certain Walmart doesn't let it's employees steal. I'd be willing to bet at least $2 on it. -- nm - TFox Sep 15, 07:18 29
- I figure you're right. I also figure ACORN HQ doesn't allow employees to give out tax evasion advice. - ty97 Sep 15, 07:22 11
  - Of course, the difference is, do they have any apparatus in place to investigate/eliminate this behavior? - Will Hunting Sep 15, 07:23 9
    - well, wouldnt this be answered by an audit report? -- nm - tRuMaN Sep 15, 07:29 2
      - What audit will tell you ACORN's offering advice on setting up illegal activities? - Will Hunting Sep 15, 07:32 1
        
        any audit which includes federal funds will include a report on internal controls over programs -- nm - tRuMaN Sep 15, 08:09
    - I really don't think we can say it's seemingly no without more information. - ty97 Sep 15, 07:26 5
      - These 3 incidents are enough for me to be quite happy they can't draw a dime of federal money. - Will Hunting Sep 15, 07:28 4
        
        If these were finance folks, skirting the law to hit their profit and sales targets, we'd have the whole company facing the wall right now. - TFox Sep 15, 07:29 3
        
        the voter registration thing is a separate issue, but I would note that they're not allowed to not submit any registration forms, for very good reason - Reagen Sep 15, 07:34 1
        
        and they've gotten kicked off of helping out with the 2010 Census to boot -- nm - znufrii Sep 15, 07:34
        
        actually, we'd probably be heralding their success as a harbinger of an economic turn-around until it all falls to pieces years down the road. -- nm - znufrii Sep 15, 07:31
  - I don't do wrong. Not my thing. -- nm - TFox Sep 15, 07:23
- and I'm pretty sure Target doesn't use entrapment to get Walmart employees to steal, either. -- nm - znufrii Sep 15, 07:21 16
  - If only the two issues were equivalent. My main issue with ty's comparison is they're not. -- nm - Will Hunting Sep 15, 07:29
  - nah, the ACORN employees are guilty as sin of what they did. No defending them. -- nm - ty97 Sep 15, 07:23
  - when you were small, did you put Hershey's syrup in your glasses of wrong, so later in life you would find it more delicious? -- nm - TFox Sep 15, 07:22 13
    - you mean there *is* a giant Target conspiracy against Walmart? -- nm - znufrii Sep 15, 07:23 12
      - Have you ever seen ads looking for 'secret shoppers'? That's basically what the media people did here, it sounds like. - Beryllium Dawn Sep 15, 07:31 11
        
        I got the impression from the article that it was conservative activists, not the media, that were involved in this. - znufrii Sep 15, 07:33 9
        
        It sounded to me like Conservative Michael Moores. It doesn't change what the employees did. -- nm - ty97 Sep 15, 07:36 5
        
        and I'm not judging what the employees did, one way or another. -- nm - znufrii Sep 15, 07:38 4
        
        You should be. -- nm - Ender Sep 15, 08:11 3
        
        why? -- nm - znufrii Sep 15, 08:15 2
        
        Because even if you don't think it was an institutional problem, what those employees did was absolutely wrong. -- nm - Ender Sep 15, 08:19 1
        
        sure, but how exactly is that point relevant to any of the arguments I was making? -- nm - znufrii Sep 15, 08:24
        
        [deleted] 2
        
        yeah, because Senators are known for weighing and judging all the facts of a case before making a decision. *snort* - znufrii Sep 15, 07:37 1
        
        It was a pretty deserved punishment. 1 incident = isolated... 2 = sketchy...3 = a systemic problem. - Will Hunting Sep 15, 07:40
        
        Except the Secret Shoppers aren't buying heroin or crack. -- nm - Will Hunting Sep 15, 07:33

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I think you are assuming both of these things.

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