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Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Posted by Stephen (aka Sceire) Sep 15 '09, 14:35

It's disingenuous to say that the push by Democrats to censure Wilson isn't fueling the media fire.

Responses:

the egg. dinosaurs (among others) laid eggs long before there ever were chickens. -- nm - zork Sep 15, 15:08 1
- But do you mean on a daily basis? Most people have eggs in the morning, except in the south where some have chicken for breakfast. -- nm - the liioulu with oreos Sep 15, 15:14
It may be enough for you to apologize through the media, but Congress and other parliamentary have censure procedure precisely to - con_carne Sep 15, 14:41 2
- its not just procedural anymore. even if they have no intention of transmitting it outside of congress, it is and will be talked about - Guy Sep 15, 14:52 1
  - Well yeah, if you believe all decorum and propriety should be thrown out the window, as you said, then sure this censure is just for the media. -- nm - con_carne Sep 15, 14:55
ugh. are they really? they won easy points with this, i wish they would just leave it at that and move on - Guy Sep 15, 14:38 40
- [deleted]
- They're certainly losing any moral high ground to criticize the right for muddying the debate with silly partisan bickering. -- nm - Dr.Vermin Sep 15, 14:40 36
  - Censure procedures exists precisely to record moments of breaking of decorum. All parliamentary bodies have a form of it. -- nm - con_carne Sep 15, 14:44 18
    - I'm pretty sure the moment has been recorded. -- nm - Dr.Vermin Sep 15, 14:54 1
      - I meant the notion that it broke decorum. "Here's where the line is, future Congressmen." -- nm - con_carne Sep 15, 15:01
    - Like say when someone boos and hisses and heckles a president...? -- nm - Stephen Sep 15, 14:47 11
      - "heckles"? you might want to look up the definition of that one, champ. - Guy Sep 15, 14:54 6
        
        Why, are you unsure of the definition there champ? I'm pretty sure shouting out "No" during a speech would fall under the definition of "heckling" - Stephen Sep 15, 15:06 5
        
        During Bush, the Democrats didn't have the context of the "raucous town halls." Bravo to them for saying "you crossed the line." Enough is enough. -- nm - con_carne Sep 15, 15:09 1
        
        Oh come on, now you're arguing that they're somehow taking the moral high road here? - Stephen Sep 15, 15:26
        
        hardly - to harass (a public speaker, performer, etc.) with impertinent questions, gibes, or the like; -- nm - Guy Sep 15, 15:08 1
        
        Now would you care to look up the definition of gibe? - Stephen Sep 15, 15:24
        
        "No" is not "Lie". It's the crux of the issue. - Reagen Sep 15, 15:08
      - It may be an odd rule, but isn't there a specific rule about "lie" and "liar"? -- nm - Dano Sep 15, 14:53
      - or applauds? -- nm - dogbert183 Sep 15, 14:52
      - I'll grant, it's no Sumner caning incident -- nm - con_carne Sep 15, 14:52
      - in the general sense it's tolerated (and whether it's the President or not isn't the issue) -- nm - Reagen Sep 15, 14:51
    - and this is *exactly* why most people feel so out of touch with their government. - Guy Sep 15, 14:46 3
      - Well if you believe decorum and rules of conduct should all be forgotten, then yes, by all means this censure is a waste of time. -- nm - con_carne Sep 15, 14:49 2
        
        i toured the Parlimentary building in Victoria this weekend and read that they were originally seated at "swords-length" apart to avoid any injuries - Guy Sep 15, 14:57 1
        
        Mostly that's symbolic. I mean, why not jsut bring a longer sword? -- nm - Reagen Sep 15, 14:58
  - so, in your opinion, how badly would a GOP congressman have to break the rules for it *not* to be "silly partisan bickering" - znufrii Sep 15, 14:42 16
    - I think given the exposure this has received, and the fact that the direct apology to the President was accepted, the case should be closed. -- nm - Dr.Vermin Sep 15, 14:53 15
      - I would have agreed except for the fact that he's basically backed away from his apology. - Reagen Sep 15, 14:56 14
        
        I haven't read/heard about him 'backing away' from the initial apology. My only point is that intentionally or not, those pushing for this censure... - Dr.Vermin Sep 15, 15:03 9
        
        The Dems censuring someone for bringing down the healthcare debate is an example of bringing down the healthcare debate? You sound preposterous. -- nm - con_carne Sep 15, 15:07 2
        
        In the sense that the censure just keeps the attention on Wilson, and does nothing to redirect attention back to the debate. -- nm - Dr.Vermin Sep 15, 15:19 1
        
        As I said on B2, I think it might help put the matter behind us, esp. if he does the floor apology thing. Of course, we will see. -- nm - con_carne Sep 15, 15:21
        
        From what I've read, Pelosi was content to let it die until Wilson played the "i had my fingers crossed when i said that" game. - Reagen Sep 15, 15:06 5
        
        Again, I don't care what happens to Wilson. I'm just agreeing with Guy [twitch] that this is all counter-productive... - Dr.Vermin Sep 15, 15:14 4
        
        The House deals with hundreds of bills a year. Do you want someone yelling out "Liar!" at everyone who makes a speech? - Reagen Sep 15, 15:17 2
        
        I see your point, but don't agree that that would be the result of skipping this censure. -- nm - Dr.Vermin Sep 15, 15:22
        
        (or, say, look at Taiwan's parliament. Remember those wacky brawls?) -- nm - Reagen Sep 15, 15:19
        
        [deleted]
        
        using your IM analogy - censuring him is like tattling to the teacher that someone called you a 'doody-head' -- nm - Guy Sep 15, 14:59 3
        
        Hmm? Congress *is* the teacher. -- nm - Reagen Sep 15, 15:00 2
        
        i was thinking more as it relates to the media (and thereby us) -- nm - Guy Sep 15, 15:01 1
        
        But you're stuck on this being for the media instead of being an internal procedural matter. -- nm - Reagen Sep 15, 15:03
- 240-179 -- nm - znufrii Sep 15, 14:40 1
  - they may as well pass a resolution rebuking Kanye West too. good use of your time, congress. -- nm - Guy Sep 15, 14:40
There's no good reason *not* to censure him, IMO. Rules of order are there for a reason. -- nm - Reagen Sep 15, 14:36 5
- If this wasn't being pushed through by the same party who saw no lack of decorum in booing and hissing the last president... -- nm - Stephen Sep 15, 14:46 2
  - as I state below, progressing to the point of calling someone a liar is materially different. - Reagen Sep 15, 14:49 1
    - [deleted]
- Us canadians and our parliament/legislature rule enforcement ... :) - Beryllium Sep 15, 14:40 1
  - Well yes. Any variation of lie or liar is no questions about it prohibited. The best explanation I've heard as to why goes: - Reagen Sep 15, 14:43
uhm, wouldn't it make more sense to attribute that push to raw political opportunism? -- nm - Beryllium Sep 15, 14:36 3
- Yes, that's what I said on b2. con on the other hand believes that it's as a result of the media coverage. -- nm - Stephen Sep 15, 14:38 2
  - a result? I'd be more inclined to believe that they think the media coverage will facilitate the process, rather than mandate the push. -- nm - Beryllium Sep 15, 14:39
  - yes to both. -- nm - znufrii Sep 15, 14:39
the chicken - dogbert183 Sep 15, 14:36

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Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

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