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Vermin: Energy reduction is one of those "good ideas" I mentioned. Like water usage reduction.

Posted by Beryllium (aka grayman) Dec 8 '09, 11:01

Taxes are a downward pressure on upward usage trends. How is that a bad thing?

Responses:

A boot on your neck is 'downward pressure' on an unwanted trend, too. - Agent.Vermin Dec 8, 11:06 48
- Desalination is highly pollutant and impactful on marine life. And you do realize it takes more than water to "grow plants in the desert", right? -- nm - Guy Dec 8, 11:16 21
  - "pollutant and impactful" - hence the need to improve the tech. - Agent.Vermin Dec 8, 11:18 19
    - unless we get a significant technological breaktrugh Las Vegas IS lost - Danedukenuuk Dec 8, 11:25
    - Why this specifically instead of just, say, better solar panels and other renewable energy sources? You're adding a pretty high degree of difficulty - Reagen Dec 8, 11:22 3
      - [shrug] Solar has funding. - Agent.Vermin Dec 8, 11:30
      - he may as well aim for farming the moon -- nm - Guy Dec 8, 11:26
      - if they were good at adapting they wouldn't be endangered. -- nm - mafic Dec 8, 11:24
    - desert (usually) makes pretty shit farmland even if you irrigate the pants off it. - mafic Dec 8, 11:22 7
      - Related: I would give the climate crisis hysterics more credit if they occasionally listed some of the benefits of warming. - Agent.Vermin Dec 8, 11:25 6
        
        btw, it is not impossible to grow food in places like that. Iceland is littered with greenhouses. - Guy Dec 8, 11:32
        
        I think climate change in either direction will have benefits for some. - mafic Dec 8, 11:31
        
        because the "benefits" are overshadowed by the global impact - Guy Dec 8, 11:30
        
        spoils - Beryllium Dec 8, 11:28
        
        in general, almost none of it. it'll just turn into marsh. - Reagen Dec 8, 11:28 1
        
        most of it already is marsh. in the summer, anyway. -- nm - mafic Dec 8, 11:32
    - and the idea of growing plants in the desert is a bit like robbing peter to pay paul - znufrii Dec 8, 11:19 5
      - not to mention that the soil is usually lacking in nutrients - Guy Dec 8, 11:22
      - for the most part, desertification is an example of ecosystem destruction. -- nm - Beryllium Dec 8, 11:21 3
        
        that's not entirely true. it may have been the 'destruction' of an ecosystem as it is beneficial to humans - Guy Dec 8, 11:24 1
        
        thats also not true - Danedukenuuk Dec 8, 11:29
        
        and you might actually get as much effect by sending free fencewire to africa -- nm - Danedukenuuk Dec 8, 11:22
  - not to mention the CO2 we need to worry about is not the stuff on the surface that would be "sucked up" by increased vegetation -- nm - znufrii Dec 8, 11:17
- well it's not really a win/ win/ win - Danedukenuuk Dec 8, 11:14 10
  - regarding your IM ... you could technically have a solar powered desalination plant for super-cheap -- nm - Beryllium Dec 8, 11:15 9
    - sure you can, and reseach to invest in a hydrogent producing plant at the same time and..and and - Danedukenuuk Dec 8, 11:16 8
      - I don't mean solar *electricity*. I mean solar power, in the traditional sense. -- nm - Beryllium Dec 8, 11:18 7
        
        traditionally "power" = "energy" and "electricity" = "power" - Danedukenuuk Dec 8, 11:20 6
        
        you're forgetting about condensation. Use solar heat to evaporate saltwater, then condense the evaporated water on a surface, and bam! fresh water. - Beryllium Dec 8, 11:21 5
        
        essentially, a giant still. -- nm - znufrii Dec 8, 11:24
        
        no that method has been done it is not really working unfornatly - Danedukenuuk Dec 8, 11:24
        
        aka: the water cycle. -- nm - mafic Dec 8, 11:23 2
        
        yessir, but hijacked in a contained environment for the benefit of mankind. -- nm - Beryllium Dec 8, 11:24 1
        
        the enviromental containment IS the big problem in the system -- nm - Danedukenuuk Dec 8, 11:26
- Allocate all carbon taxes to a tax rebate, equally split among all Americans. -- nm - psilotum Dec 8, 11:11
- [deleted] 13
  - What vermin is proposing is like bridge/highway tolls that go for paying off the cost of development ... -- nm - Beryllium Dec 8, 11:10 11
    - [deleted] 9
      - ... and then let citizens set how much they want to "donate" to each tax. - Beryllium Dec 8, 11:17 8
        
        NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!1 -- nm - US Military-Industrial Complex Dec 8, 11:18 7
        
        [deleted] 6
        
        0.0074% of a fighter plane -- nm - Roger More Dec 8, 11:22 5
        
        [deleted] 4
        
        I actually did the calculation :) $135M is the price of an F-35 and I assumed $10,000 in taxes -- nm - Roger More Dec 8, 11:28 1
        
        [deleted]
        
        or else vermin is a lot wealthier than we think :) -- nm - Beryllium Dec 8, 11:25 1
        
        or it's an older type of Figher plane -- nm - Danedukenuuk Dec 8, 11:26
    - yaxes are BAD unless they do like i want then they are OK? - Danedukenuuk Dec 8, 11:15
  - kid, your face is fungible. -- nm - znufrii Dec 8, 11:09
[deleted] 5
- I guess it all comes down to: At your core, are you a selfish person? or a selfless person? - Beryllium Dec 8, 11:06 4
  - [deleted] 1
    - hmm ... I was trying to steer the climate debate onto the same track as the healthcare debate ... -- nm - Beryllium Dec 8, 11:08
  - the ideal position is when the selfish act and the selfless act are the exact same thing. -- nm - znufrii Dec 8, 11:07 1
    - Taxation often helps there -- nm - Danedukenuuk Dec 8, 11:08

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Vermin: Energy reduction is one of those "good ideas" I mentioned. Like water usage reduction.

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