ST Alpha - "A boot on your neck is 'downward pressure' on an unwanted trend, too. " (Reading a Post)

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In response to "Vermin: Energy reduction is one of those "good ideas" I mentioned. Like water usage reduction." by Beryllium

A boot on your neck is 'downward pressure' on an unwanted trend, too.

Posted by Agent.Vermin (aka Dr.Vermin) Dec 8 '09, 11:06

Maybe if the tax revenue was securely routed directly to alternative energy research or something, I might be turned around. Otherwise it just looks like an excuse for a gov't 'revenue' increase.

Here's what I opined to a friend the other day... you can take a percent or two of my income and put it into speeding up desalinization tech. With this technology, we can irrigate some deserts, grow more plants (to soak up all this 'excess' C02), depend less on glacial runoff for our fresh water, and grow more food to feed the hungry. It's win/win/win.

But just slapping taxes on energy (however good the intentions) is only going to hurt the country, in the name of some scary computer models that haven't been proven accurate yet.

Responses:

Desalination is highly pollutant and impactful on marine life. And you do realize it takes more than water to "grow plants in the desert", right? -- nm - Guy Dec 8, 11:16 21
- "pollutant and impactful" - hence the need to improve the tech. - Agent.Vermin Dec 8, 11:18 19
  - unless we get a significant technological breaktrugh Las Vegas IS lost - Danedukenuuk Dec 8, 11:25
  - Why this specifically instead of just, say, better solar panels and other renewable energy sources? You're adding a pretty high degree of difficulty - Reagen Dec 8, 11:22 3
    - [shrug] Solar has funding. - Agent.Vermin Dec 8, 11:30
    - he may as well aim for farming the moon -- nm - Guy Dec 8, 11:26
    - if they were good at adapting they wouldn't be endangered. -- nm - mafic Dec 8, 11:24
  - desert (usually) makes pretty shit farmland even if you irrigate the pants off it. - mafic Dec 8, 11:22 7
    - Related: I would give the climate crisis hysterics more credit if they occasionally listed some of the benefits of warming. - Agent.Vermin Dec 8, 11:25 6
      - btw, it is not impossible to grow food in places like that. Iceland is littered with greenhouses. - Guy Dec 8, 11:32
      - I think climate change in either direction will have benefits for some. - mafic Dec 8, 11:31
      - because the "benefits" are overshadowed by the global impact - Guy Dec 8, 11:30
      - spoils - Beryllium Dec 8, 11:28
      - in general, almost none of it. it'll just turn into marsh. - Reagen Dec 8, 11:28 1
        
        most of it already is marsh. in the summer, anyway. -- nm - mafic Dec 8, 11:32
  - and the idea of growing plants in the desert is a bit like robbing peter to pay paul - znufrii Dec 8, 11:19 5
    - not to mention that the soil is usually lacking in nutrients - Guy Dec 8, 11:22
    - for the most part, desertification is an example of ecosystem destruction. -- nm - Beryllium Dec 8, 11:21 3
      - that's not entirely true. it may have been the 'destruction' of an ecosystem as it is beneficial to humans - Guy Dec 8, 11:24 1
        
        thats also not true - Danedukenuuk Dec 8, 11:29
      - and you might actually get as much effect by sending free fencewire to africa -- nm - Danedukenuuk Dec 8, 11:22
- not to mention the CO2 we need to worry about is not the stuff on the surface that would be "sucked up" by increased vegetation -- nm - znufrii Dec 8, 11:17
well it's not really a win/ win/ win - Danedukenuuk Dec 8, 11:14 10
- regarding your IM ... you could technically have a solar powered desalination plant for super-cheap -- nm - Beryllium Dec 8, 11:15 9
  - sure you can, and reseach to invest in a hydrogent producing plant at the same time and..and and - Danedukenuuk Dec 8, 11:16 8
    - I don't mean solar *electricity*. I mean solar power, in the traditional sense. -- nm - Beryllium Dec 8, 11:18 7
      - traditionally "power" = "energy" and "electricity" = "power" - Danedukenuuk Dec 8, 11:20 6
        
        you're forgetting about condensation. Use solar heat to evaporate saltwater, then condense the evaporated water on a surface, and bam! fresh water. - Beryllium Dec 8, 11:21 5
        
        essentially, a giant still. -- nm - znufrii Dec 8, 11:24
        
        no that method has been done it is not really working unfornatly - Danedukenuuk Dec 8, 11:24
        
        aka: the water cycle. -- nm - mafic Dec 8, 11:23 2
        
        yessir, but hijacked in a contained environment for the benefit of mankind. -- nm - Beryllium Dec 8, 11:24 1
        
        the enviromental containment IS the big problem in the system -- nm - Danedukenuuk Dec 8, 11:26
Allocate all carbon taxes to a tax rebate, equally split among all Americans. -- nm - psilotum Dec 8, 11:11
[deleted] 13
- What vermin is proposing is like bridge/highway tolls that go for paying off the cost of development ... -- nm - Beryllium Dec 8, 11:10 11
  - [deleted] 9
    - ... and then let citizens set how much they want to "donate" to each tax. - Beryllium Dec 8, 11:17 8
      - NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!1 -- nm - US Military-Industrial Complex Dec 8, 11:18 7
        
        [deleted] 6
        
        0.0074% of a fighter plane -- nm - Roger More Dec 8, 11:22 5
        
        [deleted] 4
        
        I actually did the calculation :) $135M is the price of an F-35 and I assumed $10,000 in taxes -- nm - Roger More Dec 8, 11:28 1
        
        [deleted]
        
        or else vermin is a lot wealthier than we think :) -- nm - Beryllium Dec 8, 11:25 1
        
        or it's an older type of Figher plane -- nm - Danedukenuuk Dec 8, 11:26
  - yaxes are BAD unless they do like i want then they are OK? - Danedukenuuk Dec 8, 11:15
- kid, your face is fungible. -- nm - znufrii Dec 8, 11:09

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A boot on your neck is 'downward pressure' on an unwanted trend, too.

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