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LIR: Jax. See B2. Adam and Eve/Genesis/etc as literal events, no, but they do serve to describe some important ideas of Christianity such as

Posted by oblique (aka kkuphal) Dec 9 '09, 08:55

original sin and God's covenants in ways that can be understood.

Responses:

"Ways that can be understood" seems disingenuous if we both acknowledge that taking them literally is misunderstanding them. -- nm - mara Dec 9, 09:00 9
- I'm no scholar and can't speak to the proper term for it all, but these are things handed down from generations, not some modern summary of the ideas - oblique Dec 9, 09:04 8
  - Sure. I'm saying it's not very realistic to claim it's "easy to understand." People have disagreed about its meaning(s) for centuries. There's nothing - mara Dec 9, 09:09 7
    - I didn't mean to say it was "easy to understand" in that respect, just that those allegories/stories/metaphors serve that purpose to illustrate those - oblique Dec 9, 09:10 6
      - If a story is supposed to illustrate an idea, but many people who read it don't actually get that idea, then can you truly say it's illustrating - mara Dec 9, 09:11 5
        
        This is all what priests and preachers are for. If you don't get it this Sunday, that's OK. Come back next Sunday. - con_carne Dec 9, 09:21
        
        "Go forth and spread your fruit" means different things to musubi and Dignan, that's for sure. -- nm - JaxSean Dec 9, 09:14 2
        
        one meaning of which is a felony is at least 23 states... -- nm - znufrii Dec 9, 09:15 1
        
        This is making me laugh :-) -- nm - con_carne Dec 9, 09:27
        
        people get stuff wrong all the time and for all I know, I could be completely ass-backwards - oblique Dec 9, 09:14
depends. Some Christians do take it all literally. -- nm - adventy97 Dec 9, 08:59 2
- Even the parts that contradict the other parts. -- nm - TWuG Dec 9, 09:01 1
  - "I even kept kosher just to be on the safe side." -- nm - Reagen Dec 9, 09:02
Here's the problem I have with that, if those are not to be taken as literal events, why should we take any of it as literal events? -- nm - Jim Dec 9, 08:58 25
- The Bible is a collection of books. Some historical, some not. It's not all one big work by one dude. -- nm - con_carne Dec 9, 09:01 2
  - (unless God is your dude) -- nm - con_carne Dec 9, 09:01 1
    - heh -- nm - JaxSean Dec 9, 09:12
- Why is it an all or nothing proposition? -- nm - oblique Dec 9, 09:00 19
  - because then it saves people the trouble of figuring out which is which... :) -- nm - znufrii Dec 9, 09:01
  - Well, kinda, it does, IMO. If you're telling me "these parts of the book...they're not to be taken as literal events...but THESE are" it calls into - Jim Dec 9, 09:01 17
    - do the events need to be "valid" to have meaning? -- nm - znufrii Dec 9, 09:04
    - Are you even differentiating between the Old and New Testament here? There's only about a thousand years' difference between them... -- nm - con_carne Dec 9, 09:04 6
      - Why should it matter though. Did God change his mind in those thousand years? As I understand it, they're both supposed to be The Word Of God. - musubi Dec 9, 09:06 5
        
        Frankly, I think TV evangelists have confused us a lot on how we should take the Bible. "Believe this entire book" is simply not a majority view. -- nm - con_carne Dec 9, 09:09 3
        
        What with differing adherence to church doctrine, I don't doubt it. My question is with regards to church doctrine though. - musubi Dec 9, 09:16 2
        
        For my denomination, they have had this to say: - oblique Dec 9, 09:21 1
        
        "In fact, to deny the possibility that evolutionary processes were used is seen by some as an attempt to limit God's power." - TFox Dec 9, 09:35
        
        The OT God was all piss and vinegar. The NT God is all sweetness and light. - TWuG Dec 9, 09:09
    - It's not like it's one giant story. It's many different writings collected in one cover -- nm - oblique Dec 9, 09:03 8
      - But, if we're to accept it as The Word Of God, as most religions tell use, it's not *really* different tomes under one cover, right? (nm) - musubi Dec 9, 09:04 7
        
        again, you're taking the literalist view. I don't subscribe to the idea that every word of the bible was straight from God's mouth to someone's hand - oblique Dec 9, 09:06 1
        
        I don't believe I'm being literalist, but I do appreciate that you are engaging those who question The Book. - musubi Dec 9, 09:11
        
        Here's how it seems to me: It is when it's convenient to say it is. It's not when it's convenient to say it's not. -- nm - mara Dec 9, 09:05 4
        
        And when I asked, if this is the word of God, why were parts excised and others added? - Will Hunting Dec 9, 09:06 3
        
        Islam had it right. They won't even let translations be referred to as the Koran. -- nm - znufrii Dec 9, 09:09 2
        
        Nah, imo, Islam has it wrong too, but at least they have a logical consistancy to their Book. (nm) - musubi Dec 9, 09:13 1
        
        that's more what I meant. -- nm - znufrii Dec 9, 09:22
- does it matter, really? -- nm - znufrii Dec 9, 08:59 1
  - Of course not. This way they can pick and choose what they tell people is right. -- nm - Spawn Dec 9, 09:06
"So, science fiction" me to my priest. - Will Hunting Dec 9, 08:56 15
- There's a point though...around the time of Abraham...that it becomes more historical and those events become the chronology of the Jewish people - oblique Dec 9, 08:59 1
  - This was very early teachings when he was going on about the beginning of the Bible. -- nm - Will Hunting Dec 9, 09:01
- you probably could have said the same thing more tactfully. -- nm - loosilu Dec 9, 08:58 10
  - Or the priests could have found a way to explain why God can violate the laws of physics by, you know, being Godly. -- nm - TWuG Dec 9, 09:00
  - It's an allegory to help get our teaching across. - Will Hunting Dec 9, 09:00 8
    - I'm guessing it's the word "fiction" that ticked him off. -- nm - loosilu Dec 9, 09:01 7
      - Then really, teaching a book that's not factual might not be the best manner to avoid fiction. -- nm - Will Hunting Dec 9, 09:02 6
        
        parts of it are factual. -- nm - loosilu Dec 9, 09:02 5
        
        So is the best science fiction. See the circular logic here? - Will Hunting Dec 9, 09:05 2
        
        It's a historical fiction. -- nm - CQ Dec 9, 09:07 1
        
        Same connotations......I can very easily see a situation where the Jews are fleeing Pharoah - Will Hunting Dec 9, 09:08
        
        And... parts aren't. It's the teaching of the parts that aren't as if they are that is troublesome -- nm - TWuG Dec 9, 09:04 1
        
        Exactly. -- nm - Jim Dec 9, 09:07
- Gee, I wonder why? -- nm - kelly Dec 9, 08:57 1
  - Being confronted with reality can be a traumatic exprience. -- nm - TWuG Dec 9, 08:59

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LIR: Jax. See B2. Adam and Eve/Genesis/etc as literal events, no, but they do serve to describe some important ideas of Christianity such as

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