ST Alpha - "That's a false assertion. Look at the record books, balls weren't flying out of those stadiums. Oh did what others couldn't. Just like Ruth." (Reading a Post)

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In response to "because the advantage those fields granted Oh did not grant the same advantage to Ichiro. -- nm" by Reagen

That's a false assertion. Look at the record books, balls weren't flying out of those stadiums. Oh did what others couldn't. Just like Ruth.

Posted by musubi Jun 5 '10, 09:12

Other people hit for high average like Ichiro, but others couldn't do it as consistantly well. Just like Oh.

Responses:

so the park size *doesn't* matter to Ichiro's numbers? - Reagen Jun 5, 09:15 27
- Everything matters. That's why ignoring one set of number and not the other, just cause you want Ichiro to have a record, but not Oh - musubi Jun 5, 09:17 26
  - to repeat myself, it's recognizing that different set of circumstances rule different numbers. - Reagen Jun 5, 09:20 17
    - I'm fine with that. Will is recognizing *some* differences, but not others, just cause he wants Ichiro to have a record, but not Oh. - musubi Jun 5, 09:31 16
      - It's all about legitimacy. I don't consider Oh's to be as weighty/comparable to Aaron/Bonds for the reasons discussed. - Will Hunting Jun 5, 09:33
      - What he is saying, I believe, is that not all those records would carry equal legitimacy. -- nm - TFox Jun 5, 09:32 14
        
        If that's what he's saying, great. But he specifically discounted Oh's professional record. (nm) - musubi Jun 5, 09:33 2
        
        And now he's repeated that point 3 times, so I'm fairly sure that he doens't consider them all legit. (nm) - musubi Jun 5, 09:34 1
        
        right, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have the record. he does. it's on wikipedia. i can look it up and see that. - TFox Jun 5, 09:36
        
        Right. Zero people have suggested giving him the MLB record. -- nm - Reagen Jun 5, 09:33 10
        
        No Will thinks that there is a "professional hits" record that Ichiro should own. But Oh can't be the "professional" HR record holder. - musubi Jun 5, 09:36 9
        
        He can be the pro HR leader, I can think that's a less meaningful record. - Will Hunting Jun 5, 09:38
        
        no, he *is* the record holder. but the record is less meaningful than the other record. -- nm - TFox Jun 5, 09:37 7
        
        That's nonsense. Either it's a legit record or it's not. - musubi Jun 5, 09:39 6
        
        Barry Bonds as MLB HR leader is exactly as legit as Hank Aaron was. yes or no? - Reagen Jun 5, 09:41 5
        
        Yes. Bonds is the HR record holder. (nm) - musubi Jun 5, 09:41 3
        
        Do you find yourself actually having the same level of caring for 762 as you do 755? - Will Hunting Jun 5, 09:45 2
        
        like, here's the thing - I didn't actually know what Bonds' #s, but I still know 755. -- nm - Reagen Jun 5, 09:46
        
        I don't care about either all that much. They're records. - musubi Jun 5, 09:46
        
        win -- nm - TFox Jun 5, 09:41
  - isn't this the lifeblood of sabermetrics? ignoring numbers that don't mean much, and paying attention to other numbers that do? -- nm - TFox Jun 5, 09:18 7
    - It's rigourous examination of all numbers and determining which mean the most. Not just saying, small parks, so those homers don't count. (nm) - musubi Jun 5, 09:26 2
      - Sure, but if we can't use obvious facts because we don't have a more inscrutable and abstract fact to support it is... something. - TFox Jun 5, 09:28 1
        
        Inscrutable abstract facts? Whatever dude. - musubi Jun 5, 09:41
    - This is what gets me. The ink that gets spilled over proving what people might have done, and this is the bridge too far? -- nm - Reagen Jun 5, 09:21 3
      - Where is the ink spilled proving what people might have done? - musubi Jun 5, 09:26 1
        
        no one's done the work on Oh's # (that I'm aware of). It could be done. The work on Ichiro's #s is simpler. -- nm - Reagen Jun 5, 09:29
      - we can retroactively figure a league-independant VORP for this guy, but can't say "home runs that wouldn't reach the wall in America are iffy". -- nm - TFox Jun 5, 09:22

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That's a false assertion. Look at the record books, balls weren't flying out of those stadiums. Oh did what others couldn't. Just like Ruth.

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